Recommendation needed for new 5 ton package heat pump

[az_repair_gal]

After 17 years our 5 ton heat pump gave out on us.  At least, that's what the repairman said.  He said there's less than 10% freon in the system, which is what is causing it to go into auto-shutoff.  He won't add freon, says it's against the law.

He tried to sell us a $10,000 replacement... we paid his $79 and sent him packing. 

I've been researching heat pumps on the web, and I see a vast price range for systems with Goodman toward the low end and Trane on the high end.  However, it's really hard to find prices! 

The repairman said no system will be guaranteed to last longer than 10 years.

So, considering all of this info I thought I'd ask you guys a few questions...

1) Can you give us  brand - and possibly specific model - recommendations for a 5-ton package heat pump?  Which brands require fewest repairs?  Which models have known weak spots?  How noisy/quiet are they? We'd like to take advantage of the $1500 Federal tax credit, if we can.  We would need SEER >= 14, EER >= 12, HSPF >= 8. 

2) We are in AZ.  Approximately how much can we expect to pay for installation? (ballpark).  And what's the scoop on the crane?

3) Is it a good idea to buy the heat pump from a company that also services/repairs systems, or would it be cheaper to buy the unit independently and then pay a service company to install it? 

Our current heat pump cost us $2700 installed - but hey, that was 17 years ago, after all.  Any help you can give on a quality replacement unit (for a reasonable price) is greatly appreciated.

[applianceman18007260692]

Might be a small leak get another guy out there. The newer systems need new copper and all. I would get a second opinion. You are allowed a small loss per season.

[applianceman18007260692]

Lennox is making a solar assisted unit. The condenser unit has a traditional fan and a solar powered fan.

[gllevin1]

If you've gotten 17 years out of your old A/C system - you got your money's worth.

 I used to be in the consultant engineering bus. and we only designed around Trane and Carrier (don't get Goodman, unless you want issues) - they used to be relatively equal in quality and performance. However, we replaced our home 5 ton heat pump with a Carrier system 3 years ago, and the indoor coil had to be replaced a few months ago. That almost never used to happen to Carrier units, and has shaken my confidence in them a liitle. The warranties are not as good as they used to be either (parts were covered, but not labor or freon, so it still ended up costing us $500)

The 14 SEER is good cost/benefit range - look for the energy rebates too. If you are just replacing the indoor/outdoor units and not doing any ductwork modifications, you should be able to get it done for around $6,000; $7,000 tops...don't pay more then that for a 5 ton package. Buy it from the group that is going to install it in order to avoid finger pointing betweem groups, if there are any warranty issues later.

[ACtechGUY]

It may not be a bad idea to have someone else check the old unit out. While it is old, what you have is just a leak. many leaks are repairable (unless it is in the evaporator coil.)

As far as the the new units go.......You get what you pay for.

Lower priced units will have thinner metal cases, cheaper compressors and fans ect. Trane / American standard and Lennox and Carrier are all about the same as far as "issues".

every single brand has one or two items that they have "refrigerant leak" problems with.

The tax credit requires you get a system that has been "tested" by the government to meet their requirements. It is usually at least a 18 seer system. There also the good posibility that you may not get the full 1500 in the end.

Buy your system and have it installed by the same company.

It will much better for you that way.

Cranes here cost about 300 for the small crane for 2 hours.

[az_repair_gal]

Thanks to all for the excellent advice and for answering all of my questions!  I will look for a quality heat pump.  Fortunately I have a little more time to research and set some $$ aside, as I don't have to buy one today.

Like some of you, I was skeptical.  The heat pump was working one day and throwing out blissful heat, then the next day it kept switching itself off.  It did not sound to me like we'd lost our refrigerant.

I called a second service company out immediately after the first guy left, and he was here an hour later.  After a thorough checkup (the tech was here for nearly 2 hours!!) we got a completely different story.  Although it is true that the evap coil has exterior rust, there is NO LEAK and the refrigerant levels are fine!  In fact the heat pump is working ok after servicing.    

True, there are a couple of oil leaks, and the drip pan rusted through 10 years ago, and there are a few parts that could give out at any moment - but what the first tech told us is total garbage.  He not only told us there was less than 10% freon in our unit, he also completely misrepresented the Federal laws on R22 refrigerant (told us that as of 1/1/2010 no more R22 units could be sold - I did some research and found it is actually 2020 when that portion of the law goes into effect).  Not to mention that he told us we had a leak when he never even checked for one! 

I have a receipt from the second tech that says 'refrigerant levels ok'.  I am inclined to call the first company and request a refund of the $79 I paid for that 'service call'.  What do you think?  I've never done this before (a service call is a service call), but he spent less than 10 minutes on my roof and then flat out lied to us. 

Needless to say, this company, who sold us our heat pump 17 years ago and has been called out for service calls every year since, just lost our business either way. 

[ACtechGUY]

I forgot to mention in my first reply about the freon. There is absolutely no way to tell percentage wise how much refrigerant is in a system without recovering it all and weighing it. A statement like that is a dead giveaway that someone is trying to rip you off.

About the r22 and 2010..... that is true. January 1st 2010 , new r22 systems WILL NOT be manufactured. you may still be able to get a 22 system for a short while after that , but when they are gone , they are gone. After that you are looking at a 410a system. At this point is would truly be stupid to buy a r22 system because the highest seer you can buy is 13 in r22. R22 replacement componets will still be sold ( like evaporators , compressors , valves) But no condensing units or package units. They plan on reducing the quanity of r22 made each year until 2020 when they will make no more r22 . That stuff is about to get real expensive. There is also a very real possibility that r22 will be totally phased out before 2020.

As for the first service call, I say go for it. It sounds like he did nothing , therefor you should pay nothing. If they refuse then find every message board and review site you can and make sure everybody knows about how they do business.