question on proper heat pump charging

[paschal_old]

without going into specific system specs, can someone explain what is the difference  between just putting freon (old type) into a heat pump and addressing the "sub cooling" when charging a system? Hopefully I have the terminology correct.

[AmTec Services]

Sub cooling is the term we use for cooling the freon lower than it's condensing temp.

Example would be R 22 freon with a condensing temp of 100. This is the temp that the freon turns from a hot gas into a liquid or condenses. If we stack that freon up in the coil, the fan has more time to cool that liquid even more. So adding freon to the unit will affect the sub cooling. Your temp measured at the liquid line will be lower than the condensing temp.  How much is your sub cooling #

Example  100 deg. condensing temp minus 85 degree liquid line temp  =  15 degree sub cooling.  Adding freon will increase sub cooling, removing will decrease.

Its the exact opposite for super heat.

Are you lookig for advice for charging in heat or cool?

........AmTec:D

[paschal_old]

Well I hate to dig out old laundry, but I have been through hell for two years with my heat pump and have been through three different companies, the problem was moron techs, and now I am quite convinced that it was just that until now. Had a really good guy who wanted me to walk and talk and watch his work and explain as he went about his work, who is now my guy for life due to his work ethic, and I got a bit lost when he was trying to explain sub cooling charging. I am an engineer by trade, but on the computer end, and nothing ticks me off more than to not totally understand something.

Started with a defective motor mount that killed the motor, variable speed, but was cooling well until that point.....the motor was replaced, however due to my analysis, freon vanished, cuz it went with the tech. Due to the warranty arguments etc., which i finally resolved, and it was resolved but problems came up big time in heating season and company number one claimed no responsibility of course, that tech does not work here anymore etc...........the motor was replaced in low demand season.  The next guy from company number 2 said 78 degrees heat was the best I could get on the heat side and charged me for a few pounds of freon and two hundred bucks .....then the good guy came out after 50 pounds of ice hit the coils....and my house would have flooded without the wet vac.

There was never a leak, IMHO  Company number three could not find one,and spent over an hour trying to find one.  Bottom line....Mechanic number one stole a few pounds of freon....Mechanic number two company two never added the freon he charged me for, but got three pages of Mr. honest in a local paper, and Mr Hero Mechanic replaced the stolen freon, and the system has been rock stable for almost 4 months. When the good guy tuned the system it was less than 2 months after Mr. Newspaper gassed it....(well he charged me for it) which was 78 degree heat output when he got here and 78 degree output when he left.....great show however, bucket of water to boil the freon etc but accomplished nothing and fixed nothing.

I stick with door number three, no flash, no show, just a humble knowledge guy with an M.E. degree that knows what he is doing....I just got lost when he tried to explain the sub cooling charge......

[paschal_old]

I guess I was trying to understand how someone can say they put a couple of lbs of freon r22 into a system and say it is good on the pressure, which was either a lie or incompetance vs someone who says it is set for proper subcooling and is now full after 3 lbs and it has been working fine for months etc  after only a few weeks. It is much harder to get get taken to the cleaners after retirement and not understand everything that has happened. Getting ripped off is a bit tougher to deal with.

[AmTec Services]

Proper way to charge a TXV metered system in the cooling mode is by the sub cool method. Need guages and thermometer. Pressure alone only tells part of the story.

.............AmTec;)

[JJDH]

It is highly doubtfull anyone stole your refrigerant

[paschal_old]

Lets just say I have good reason to believe company number one stole the freon, with supporting evidence, company number two, smoke mirrors bucket of water and lies, and company number 3, hero, and that is what this was about, the hero, the good guy in the business, and yes he was full of gauges outdoor ambient, and you name it, and tried  his best to explain everything he was going thru after my two years of misery. Now my system is working, and that was the point.

As in all business, there is good and bad, and consumers must know sometimes you may have to cut your losses more than once to get to the right people, and for me, that is exactly what happened. I still have a minor defrost issue on very cold days but we have not had enough of them for a consistent pattern, but I feel good when it is cold on a regular basis, it will now be corrected. That is all this post was about and I thank those who explained the sub cooling. I understand that now.

To answer freon theft comments, it is not that unusual either from a tech or a techie teenager filling up garbage bags to huff it. I know of two cases in this metro involving juveniles stealing freon caught on camera snorting freon from houses. I know of one a/c tech caught and fired for taking a pound or so from customers under service contracts on a daily basis. so yes that activity does happen.