ROBERTSHAW 700 GAS CONTROL VALVE 24V MODEL GRAINGER P/N 4E123

[cvx]

Hi guys- I Recently joined as a lifetime member because I love this site! Now my furnace has crapped and I NEED THIS SITE! Funny how life works. I am a journeyman electrician by trade and work in an oil refinery doing process control / electrical / instrumentation. I also ran the HVACR crew and contractors there for 6 years, but it was primarily package (rooftops) and chillers and Liebert IT - computer room units, not furnaces.

I have an old, old Delco furnace that has a Rebertshaw "700" series gas regulator in it (24 volt) that appears to have gone bad. I went to Grainger and got another, their P/N 4E123.  Once home and comparing them, I realized that each unit had a black plastic screw / spade terminal section on top BUT the old unit actually did had three combo spade screw metal terminals on top while the new unit has only two and leaves the middle terminal empty.

If I hold the old unit in my hand looking at the terminals I'll  just randomly call them #1, 2 and 3 from left to right.

Comparing the old and new units using the ohm meter, both coils are at 68-70 ohms across the #1 and 3 terminals. The #2 terminal on the old unit is dead to either #1 or #3 and stands off ground too. It would appear that the #2 terminal provided in the old units was just a convenient landing point for the t-stat wire as you series'd the loop from transformer to t-stat to regulator to bimetalic and finally back to the other side of the transformer. Was the #2 terminal eliminated for cost savings or possibly changes to the code?

I am always respectful of areas new or limited in familiarity to me and this is one, so I'd really appreciate any thoughts or feedback.

Thanks to all!

cvx

[RegUS_PatOff]

ROBERTSHAW 700-xxx

? ? ?

[cvx]

Yep!  Says so right in the big ol' Robertshaw pamphlet.

Furnace is crap, but it's working now.

Hey, here's a suggestion - next time you see something you don't immediately recognize, if you do want to help, try GOOGLING it! Guess what you get if you Google "Robertshaw 700 series"  ?

A picture of my gas regulator!!

That way you can see the part in question.  Maybe you call  it by a different name? Who knows?  I'd be willing to  bet that you have lots of info you could share with others here if you knew what the part or item in question was, so if a name confuses you , just Google it!

[RegUS_PatOff]

there should be (3) numbers after the 700-

700-xxx

[cvx]

Thanks!

Yeah, if you google " GRAINGER 4E123"  that pulls up the Grainger page  - ON GOOGLE!! 

You can see right there it's a 700-400 series.

So no big deal 'cause I can navigate and fix stuff (woulda liked some real help) but again, for those seriously challenged folks that come to you, they're most likely unable to drill down for those extra 3 digits after the 700- .

Now we can give real help to those that can't understand their situation and come to us for help! I love to go the extra mile to do the best I can!

Thanks again!

[RegUS_PatOff]

[user=71875]cvx[/user] wrote:

Yeah, if you google " GRAINGER 4E123"  that pulls up the Grainger page  - ON GOOGLE!! 

You can see right there it's a 700-400 series.

I already saw that the Grainger 4E123 is a  700-400,

BUT is YOUR ORIGINAL a 700-400 ?

[cvx]

Dude, it was done fixed hours ago.

For a guy with 16,000+ posts, your game is weak. Don't help unless it's max effort every time!

Thank God I did 12 years in submarines as a Nuc electrician! 5000 miles form home and 1000 feet down, you'd better be doin' more than droppin the ball on the last 3 part numbers of a nationally known manufacturer! Boy, you wouldn't have lasted long with us!

Every time someone comes to this site, their contact with you is often their first contact with the site. 

>>>>>>   YOU represent the Forums ! ! !   <<<<<<

16,000 posts..........  hmmmmm 

'nuf said

.

[RegUS_PatOff]

RegUS_PatOff wrote:

ROBERTSHAW 700-xxx

? ? ?

I wouldn't have so many posts and have to keep asking questions 

if the original poster ANSWERED my FIRST QUESTION

THE COMPLETE PART NUMBER Robershaw 700-xxx ?

Robershaw makes a number of DIFFERENT 700-xxx

INCLUDUING a DUAL COIL Gas Valve  700-402    4E124

cvx wrote:

.. 12 years in submarines as a Nuc electrician! 5000 miles form home and 1000 feet down, you'd better be doin' more than droppin the ball on the last 3 part numbers of a nationally known manufacturer!

you'd better be havin' the COMPLETE PART NUMBER for those submarine parts

GIGO: garbage in / garbage out

[JJDH]

Read the site rules. They simply state a complete part number. You should stick with google. Representing yourself in that manner will get you NO help!

[jb8103]

The #2 terminal on the old unit is dead to either #1 or #3 and stands off ground too.

What does "stands off ground" mean? Or "dead"?

[cvx]

What does "stands off ground" mean? Or "dead"?

hi jb!

In the post you refer to I was discussing the electric circuits associated with the gas valve and the fact that I couldn't (at the time) clearly see how the contacts or terminals on top of the gas valve were configured.

When I said the one terminal was dead, number 2 I believe it was, I meant that I had no continuity between the number 2 terminal and the number 1 and 3 terminals. In other words, there was no path for the electricity to flow between the #2 terminal and the other two terminals. This was a bit puzzling to me initially because the robertshaw is built with all three terminals side by side. I ultimately figured out that the purpose of the #2 terminal was simply to provide the installer with a place to land two wires when running the control circuit or loop. In other words the #2 terminal was connected to nothing, it was just a point to land 2 wires running in the control circuit. The "puzzle" had arisen because my new robertshaw gas valve had only 2 terminals instead of the original 3. Without a wiring diagram I was confused and didn't was to wire it the wrong way and smoke a brand new gas valve.

When the term "stands off ground" is used it means that the circuit is not referenced or connected to ground. Typically, one side of most, but not all, electric circuits are referenced to ground or earth. An explanation much beyond that is getting into some fairly technical aspects. Since I am not sure of your back ground / expertise, please allow me to stop here. If there are further points of interest wiht this topic, write and i'll try to help / answer.

take care

cvx

[applianceman18007260692]

Your new valve has 2 terminals right? Just get 24 volts to them and all will be well.

We just want to make sure your system has the proper stuff before making a reply. Robertshaw gas valves may all look alike but do not work alike. A 3 terminal gas valve is usually a millivolt type. Your old valve having 3 terminals is a puzzler. That is why Reggie was trying to confirm your part number .

[cvx]

Hi all

Applianceman, I saw your comment today.

I want start by apologizing to Reggie for getting on his case during my initial inquiries. No excuses. I have rough edges that do not always serve me well. My fault, my poor judgment, period. So Reggie, I really do apologize for getting on your case. I don’t come by here all the time and these new posts come to my attention via the email, like this one, which made me take a minute an look back at the entire string. Not my best day, it was an entirely wrong approach, pretty darn rude. Hope you’ll take the time to stop and share should you see me up here Reggie, I’d appreciate you’re thoughts anytime!

With regards to the Robertshaw, I had that figured out the first day, so I am ok now, but I really appreciate you taking the time to add a thought. As I said in my original post, I work in an oil refinery doing instrumentation / electrical control and have used other robertshaw products. Design changes like this are not uncommon and have been a trend over the years as manufacturers try to save a buck. Sometimes it seems insanely silly or stupid to see what they do, but they do it none the less. Having that 3rd terminal to land wires on was a nice touch. My guess is they saved a penny, maybe, eliminating it. My old unit was rated 24 volts, clearly labeled, so yeah, the terminal missing on the new unit was a head scratcher. I looked at the idea it was a millivolt unit, but as soon as I checked the old unit, there it was, clear as day on the label: 24 volts.

Sometimes I think we all forget to look at the obvious, simple possibility and that’s what I did. I PRESUMED the terminal had to have an electrical function directly associated with the valve. It didn’t. I tested and knew it had no connection to the other 2 terminals, nor was there continuity between this terminal and the body of the valve. I still didn’t get it because I was focused on trying to find a path or explanation for what I PRESUMED was the answer, that this terminal was somehow a functioning part of the valve’s electrical circuit. Well, it wasn’t, and as soon as that idea crept into my and I got my mind around it, I worked it through. A great lesson on troubleshooting and how you can screw yourself not thinking big picture, full view. Presuming the answer and trying to fit the facts to the presumption is not the right way, but I’d guess most everyone reading this and doing service work has had a similar experience. It’d be wonderful if my brain worked well enough to remember all these little lessons when I needed them, not afterwards!!

K, take care,

cvx

[Bobice]

My 2 cents and JMHO. When coming to a site like this it is because a person is asking for help.

Having the proper and complete model number aids in members providing assistance.

Brow beating someone who offered assistance and then patting one self on the back about his or her

accomplishments tends to send a bad message. Not all who are members are technicians rather people

who have had a similar experience.

I have in my 20 + years of teaching and tutoring so called professionals find that those that blow their own horn have in reality

a hell of a lot to learn.