York H2RC048S06A Fan Needs Push, But Already Replaced Parts

[zold]

I have a York H2RC048S06A that has been acting up. I replaced the outside fan motor and the relay switch under the side panel last year, which brought it back to life for a season. Now, the compressor comes on and it blows cold air, but I have to run outside and give the fan a push with a stick every time to get it going. After giving it a push, it runs fine. But. I just replaced the dual run capacitor and start capacitor under the side panel with new parts this week, but I still have to give the fan a stick push to get it to run. Nothing is making any funny noises. I'm at a loss as to what the next troubleshooting steps should be to get this thing going again.

[RegUS_PatOff]

did you test the new Capacitor ?

As mentioned in a response to your previous post,

some new Capacitor are junk

more so the ones made in China.

[jumptrout]

Reg is right.

Replace the fan motor cap.

Power outages/loose wiring/power spikes can all cause capacitors to be short lived.

With the power off for at least 30 minutes,try turning the fan blade.

If it is hard at all to turn,new motor time.

Another test is with the fan running,disconnect power.

Does the fan turn freely or stop quickly?

If stops quickly,replace fan motor.

[Bobice]

Try a little WD-40. Spray it on the shaft towards the motor.

[zold]

The run capacitor tests good at 45.34mf and 5.01mf, respectively. Sadly, you are right, it is made in China, so I'll be sure to keep an eye on it.

The Start Capacitor is a Cera-Mite 305C11, which I'm unsure of how to properly test as it has three prongs and a yellow wire connecting the two ends together. There is a red wire that runs from the center prong to Common on the run cap and a brown wire than runs from one end of the yellow wires to Fan on the run cap. Suggestions?

When running the A/C and then turning it off, the fan took around five seconds to spin down to a stop.

When I pulled the grill off of the top of the unit to check out the fan that was replaced last year, the shaft dripped a few drops of oil. Seeing as how I haven't added any oil to it, this would seem to be a bad sign. Otherwise, the motor seems to spin quite easily and after hitting it with some WD-40 and putting everything back together, it still didn't want to spin up by itself. It is a AO Smith F48J66A48. If this is the issue, is there a better quality replacement motor?

Is there anything else I can do to troubleshoot this and be sure of the issue? If I bring home a new fan motor, put it in the unit and it doesn't fix the A/C, my wife might just kill me....or even worse, I'll loose face due to a weakness in my manly fix-it skills.

[Bullstok]

Check the motor windings. Someone else can post how... Too late 4 me.

Well its not that late for a worknight...

Unhook the three motor leads. (not the two browns if it has two browns going to a capacitor)

Check each wire resistance to ground. It should not register anything.

Test resistance between each of three sets of two wires. (1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3)

Two of the numbers added together should equal the remaining number.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Bullstok

[RegUS_PatOff]

this may be your wiring diagram

[zold]

Check the motor windings. Someone else can post how... Too late 4 me.

Well its not that late for a worknight...

Unhook the three motor leads. (not the two browns if it has two browns going to a capacitor)

Check each wire resistance to ground. It should not register anything.

Test resistance between each of three sets of two wires. (1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3)

Two of the numbers added together should equal the remaining number.

The resistance to ground on the red, black and brown wires was all zero.

Black to brown was 60.5, black to red was 27.0 and red to brown was 86.7. Is it safe to assume that 87.5 and 86.7 are within margin of error? If, so the what is the next step? Thanks for all the help so far.

[RegUS_PatOff]

.. what is the next step?

is the Fan Motor wired correctly ?

Start, Run, Common ?

Is the Capacitor wired correctly ?

5 uF, 45 uF, common

as shown in the wiring diagram

[applianceman18007260692]

Dude this motor is probably the easiest to wire. Get 220 volts to the motor and attach a 5 mike cap on it. If it won't start by itself get another one. I have had to put a new motor on my 3 ton Miller twice in the last 5 years. Cost $75. But where I live we run the ac 10 months a year. AO Smith is a great motor but it seems to me they don't last as long anymore since they did away with the old style cap (had PCBs ) and the newer style caps just do not hold up. In the last 5 years I have had 2 of the caps rupture.

Edited April 13, 2012 by applianceman18007260692

[zold]

The fan motor has to be wired correctly, as it comes with a wiring connector that will only plug into the rest of the unit one way. I double checked the wiring on the capacitors and everything looks right to me. I would like to test the start thermistor, but am unsure of how to do so correctly. It is a Cera-Mite, as pictured below, with two end prongs and a center prong. If everything is working correctly with this fellow, what readings should I expect?

Edited April 13, 2012 by zold

[RegUS_PatOff]

... I would like to test the run capacitor,

would need a Capacitor tester, or a Multimeter with a Capacitor function,

OR someone that has one

[zold]

would need a Capacitor tester, or a Multimeter with a Capacitor function,

OR someone that has one

My multimeter can handle testing capacitors, I'm just not sure how to test this thing with three unmarked prongs. What readings should I expect?

[RegUS_PatOff]

A dual Capacitor will usually have a dual (or the most) Terminals for Common

[Bullstok]

Thasnot a run capacitor. Itza start (ptc) thermister.

[zold]

Thasnot a run capacitor. Itza start (ptc) thermister.

Thanks, I corrected the error. How should I go about testing a Cera-Mite 305C11 then?

Edited April 14, 2012 by zold

[RegUS_PatOff]

... Start Capacitor is a Cera-Mite 305C11,

yes, that is a Compressor Motor Start Relay ...

I thought we were talking about the Dual Run Capacitors for your Fan problem

(in your earlier post)

[zold]

It looks just like #25 in the second diagram.

[RegUS_PatOff]

... It looks just like #25 in the second diagram.

yes, that replaces the Start Relay (and maybe the Start Capacitor) for the Compressor

(not connected to the Fan)

[zold]

Well, if that piece has nothing to do with the fan and the run capacitor tests good at at 45.34mf and 5.01mf, then is there anything else, other than the fan, that could be the issue? It seems as if we have ruled everything else out.

[RegUS_PatOff]

or the way it's wired ...

What were the symptoms of your "old" Fan ?

[Bullstok]

It's the model A fan motor. It is crank start. Update ur motor.

Seriously though, to sum it up...

Requirements:

1. It needs 220 or so volts (and be capable of maintaining voltage under load) across both the run (red) & common (black) and start (brown) & common (black). <<<<< Or the wiring or other electrical component is the problem.

2. It needs a good capacitor of the correct mfd rated FOR THE MOTOR INSTALLED (on the brown wire) AND capacitor has to be good under a load. Once in awhile they can test fine and still not be good enough under load. This capacitor can be one side of a dual or it can have a single cap for the fan and a single cap for the compressor. <<<<<< Or the capacitor is the problem.

3. Windings need to check out good. <<<<< Or the motor is the problem.

4. Bearings and other such mechanical things need to be working and free / unobstructed. <<<<< Or the motor / fan etc is the problem. Check amp draw on fan when you have it spinning (with a clamp meter if you have the capability). If it is high (over the rated 1.3 amps, it might indicate bearings or such issues. note though: a bad cap can raise amp draw as well)

If it doesn't work after all that, u maybe missed something. Time to punt.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Bullstok

[zold]

or the way it's wired ...

What were the symptoms of your "old" Fan ?

The old fan would make loud screeching noises. It was replaced roughly a year ago and the unit has worked well with the replacement fan, up until the last week or so. I'm pretty bummed that the new fan didn't make it very long, guess "Made in Mexico" doesn't mean what it used to....

[zold]

It's the model A fan motor. It is crank start. Update ur motor.

Seriously though, to sum it up...

Requirements:

1. It needs 220 or so volts (and be capable of maintaining voltage under load) across both the run (red) & common (black) and start (brown) & common (black). <<<<< Or the wiring or other electrical component is the problem.

2. It needs a good capacitor of the correct mfd rated FOR THE MOTOR INSTALLED (on the brown wire) AND capacitor has to be good under a load. Once in awhile they can test fine and still not be good enough under load. This capacitor can be one side of a dual or it can have a single cap for the fan and a single cap for the compressor. <<<<<< Or the capacitor is the problem.

3. Windings need to check out good. <<<<< Or the motor is the problem.

4. Bearings and other such mechanical things need to be working and free / unobstructed. <<<<< Or the motor / fan etc is the problem. Check amp draw on fan when you have it spinning (with a clamp meter if you have the capability). If it is high (over the rated 1.3 amps, it might indicate bearings or such issues. note though: a bad cap can raise amp draw as well)

If it doesn't work after all that, u maybe missed something. Time to punt.

Thank you for the excellent summary. That makes sense, I'll give another fan a shot and if that doesn't fix it, call in some expert eyeballs to give things a look. Are there better quality replacement fans that offer a longer service life than the AO Smith F48J66A48 that is in the unit?

[RegUS_PatOff]

... that doesn't fix it, call in some expert eyeballs to give things a look.

service call may cost as much as a new Fan Motor and Capacitor plus parts

For a Capacitor, you could buy just a 5 uF one (much cheaper than the dual)

Try that first, if no-go ... time for a new Fan Motor