Whirlpool Washer sadness

[Hoser]

I assume this is where I get my "paid-for-in-full-with-US-cash-live-help".

If not...let me know.

I have a Whirlpool Ultimate Care II Washer.

Mod: LSN1000JQ1

Ser: CL2528436

Type: 111

For some time, my wife has been complaining that clothes come out somewhere between dripping wet & normal, happy wet.  I scoured your site (and didn't contribute beer money ), took the washer apart, replaced those rubber bushing thingys (3 of them) on the motor (they looked ok, but new ones were cheap, and everything was apart anyways), put it back together, and nothing changed.  The motor seemed to spin freely, and I took it to the appliance place where I got the bushings, and they said it seemed fine.  About a month ago, I was looking at it again, hoping for inspiration (perhaps a cow to be stuck in there or something?), and I was holding the lid catch down with a screwdriver so it would high spin, and the catch broke off.  I was happy because I thought maybe that was the problem, replaced it, and no difference

I have sat beside the machine through a couple of cycles, and I notice that it does this cycle.  Rinse (on machine) - water gets pumped in, and starts spinning.  Water stops, continues spinning.  Spinning kicks into high gear, and water pumps again for 15secs(maybe 30?), and continues high gear spinning.  I don't know anything about washers, but it seems to me if that last shot of water wasn't happening, the clothes would come out "dry" (not dripping).

I have been too busy to fix it, and too broke to bring it in, so this is how it has been for awhile.

Now, a new development...  when it is slowing down from a spin, there is a tremendous racket.  Kind of like rocks in the motor or something?  I dunno...it is loud anyways.

that is getting worse.

This is where I am at....hoping for samurai internet brain wave wisdom.

 

Dan

 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Very good possiblity of a stripped out drive block. Could look like it's spinning good with no load but with load slows down enough so the wet clothing when done. It would also explain the noise when slowing down from a spin. With a stripped drive block when the brake sets to stop the basket from spinning it doesn't stop, drive block just slips on basket drive tube.

Remove the agitator and look at the top of the aluminum drive block. You should see two tabs that should lock into the notches on the drive block and the two tabs should be flush with the top of the drive block. If the basket drive tube is sticking up above the drive block or if you try to turn the spin basket and see the two tabs slide out of the notches and the basket raise as it slides over the tabs you will know that is your problem.

[Hoser]

Ok...I don't think I see what you descibe, but I see something.  I took off the agitator.  There is a metal thingy -looks like a clip (round, 3/4" wide(tall?) - seems to just be a spacer or something(sitting loose on shaft anyways).

Then there is a plastic dohickey, with a tab facing up and a tab facing down.  Also loose, pulls right up.

The plastic dohickey is covered in metal shavings, as is the spanner nut & drive block underneath.  The drive block does have 2 tabs sticking up, both of which are very worn - one worse then the other.  Everything is very tight though, and nothing moves when I turn the basket.

So....I didn't really understand your reply, but I think the drive block might be a large part (or all of) my problem.

Now...how do i get it off?  There is the spanner nut (which according the repairclinic.com I need a spanner nut removal tool for) to take off, then the drive block.  How do I take them off?  Also, is the spanner nut reverse threaded?  I was using a largish wrench, and couldn't move it, but if it should move, I will eat some wheaties & spinach and try again.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Spanner wrench is the way to go. They're inexpensive and will save lots of skin on your knuckles and metal on the spanner nut.

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=1021707

Here's a picture of a good drive block, which you'll see once the basket is out:

[Hoser]

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/123710600.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/123710564.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/123710582.jpg

Here are a couple pics of where I am at now.

Looks like I need to find a spanner wrench first - I am checking locally rather then repairclinic to get it today.

Also, in one of the pics you can see some of the bottom of the basket.  There are four holes about the size of a nickel, 3 of them with a rubber cover in them.  One without.  I assume there should be 4, correct?  What are they called so I can get a new one?

 

[Pegi]

Those are filter plugs, think you have to buy the set of 4 tho....you can take a large screw driver and knock the lock nut to the left to get it off, some oil may help, and pull the spin basket, then remove the drive block to replace it.  If the ears of the spin tube are too damaged you will have to replace this clutch assy also.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Stripped out drive block is deffinitely the problem....

The two tabs on the spin tube don't look to bad but I would suggest tweaking them a little.

When you get the new drive block take a tappered chisel and gently tap it between the agitator shaft and each corner of the tabs that stick up. Use the new drive block turned upside down to see when you have the tabs out where they fit in the notches of the drive block perfectly.

If you don't do this or replace the basket drive/brake assembly you will be replacing the drive block in a very short time again. When the block strips out the edges of the tabs that stick up get rolled in a little and are not square in the corresponding notches in the drive block which will eat up a new drive block.

[Hoser]

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124032149.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124032172.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124032195.jpg

Ok...slow canadian at work here.

I think I took 2 pictures of the drive block, right?

There is the basket drive shaft, but no evidence of any notches in the drive block.  The blob thingy half way up the threads in a blob of grease.

The block came out with the drum (I am calling the drum the part of the washer that the clothes touch when they are getting clean...).  I heaved up the drum, the block came with it, so I tapped it out with a wood block.

So - the drive block looks fine to me.  However, if I look closely at it, the inside of the block is slight scored, and on the top there does seem to be some damage.  Is there supposed to be a lip around the top inside edge?  Right now mine is smooth all the way though (like a pipe).  It looks like there should kind of be a lip perhaps?  So that at the end the diameter is less then the rest of it?

I dunno

[Hoser]

So the drive block looks cheap ($12.80).

Also, I went to repairclinic.com and found a picture of a new one, and mine is so very shot it makes me cry.

How much does the spin tube cost?  I can't seem to find it on repair clinic.

If it is many $$$ (over 50) I will try a few drive blocks first.  If it is under $50.00, I would rather replace it now while everything is in pieces anyways...

[Pegi]

CLICK HERE The ears look damaged beyond repair, however you might be able to true them up so they will last awhile....

[Hoser]

So I get a new drive block ($15.00), put everything back together with a bandaid & a prayer, in 3-6months I need to take it apart again and put another $15.00 drive block, and then get a new drive tube as well ($54.00).

Plus my time which I estimate to be a minimum of $8754.42/hour...1 hour total to pull apart & put back together....

I am going to put a new basket drive tube in at the same time.

Next question...How do I take out the tube?  from the picture of the part it would appear it comes out of the top of the motor/transmission dohicky under the tub...?  Flip the washer over and work from the bottom?

Also, I would like Pegi & Budget Appliance Repair to commence a samurai battle to the death as punishment for giving conflicting advice...

Although since I like Pegi's advice better Pegi gets a sword, budget gets a toothpick (dull)

[Pegi]

Lay the washer on its back, remove the pump and motor and the three tranny bolts, slide the tranny and basket drive assy out from the bottom...

[Hoser]

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124203282.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124203305.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124203319.jpg

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL667/4269995/8968591/124203350.jpg

Ok...

The shaft seems to be welded to the brake shoe assembly.

Repair clinic seems to have only the shaft listed.  I do not technically have a welder in my basement (or a cutting torch for that matter.)

What up?

Also, is there supposed to be oil dripping off of every surface related to the washer?

Also, how do the brake shoes look? fine? time to replace?  Lots of dust/oil/oildust in the "brakedrum" assembly - not sure how clear that is.

Dan

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Well, I guess since you don't like the advise I give. I will only give this one last input to this thread and let Pegi take it from there........

I don't think those tabs on the spin tube look as bad as Pegi thinks they do, if all the shavings/residue of the old stripped out drive block is cleaned out and the tabs are tweeked back into position using a new drive block to know when they are correct you would most likely never have a problem with it again...... But that's up to you ----- I've never had to go back on one to replace a tube or another drive block since I started checking and tweeking the drive tabs back into the correct position.

The new spin tube from RepairClinc appears to arrive bare, (ie. NO brakes, brake cam, brake actuator lever). Removing the one c-clip on the bottom of your Spin tube/brake assembly and the one on the brake shoe pivot point will reduce yours to the same state and all your old parts are transferred to the new one.

It would be a good idea while your in there to break the glaze on the brake shoes and also in the drum where the brakes stop against with a piece of emery cloth before you put it all back together.

Also it wouldn't hurt to remove the clutch band and spring and clean the cluth up real good also. You don't want any grease or oil one the clutch it's a dry unit.

[Hoser]

In the light of a new morning, I have looked at the shaft again, and I think I might get a drive block and see how worn those tabs actually are...perhaps listen to budget repair.

Also, I am still wondering where all the oil comes from???

The brake/clutch assembly is obviously supposed to be dry (confirmed by Budget).

The tranny seams to be a sealed unit (10 bolts holding the cover on).

The only other thing I can see that needs oil is the motor itself...but there is a LOT of oil on the underside of the machine.  As well, my wife reminded me that in the first few months of ownership, we cleaned oil of the ground many times.  Warranty phone call assured us this was normal.  Is it factory policy to dump 1/2 cup of oil into the motor and let it spin out on the customers floor?

Thanks

Dan

[Pegi]

I was understanding the spin tube was wanted to be replaced, we both suggested truing up the tabs that hold the drive block.......all of that oil must be coming from the tranny and is not normal for everything to be covered with this inside of the washer.  This transmission has a 5 year warranty, how old is this washer?? You may be looking at replacing the whole clutch assy since it looks to be covered with oil unless you can remove this with some de-greaser.

""Ok...slow canadian at work here""  I do not believe they will ship parts to Canada anyway

[Hoser]

The washer is 4 years old or so?  For sure less then 5.

If the transmission is spewing oil, does the warranty cover just the tranny, or the labour to clean up everything the oil got onto? (ie, brake, clutch, etc.)

If Whirlpool pays, I will bring the whole kit&caboodle into a whirlpool authorized repair shop.

If not, I will just bring the tranny in and let them look at it.

And for everything else, I will keep mucking along.

Also, "everything inside the washer" - by this I mean the whole underside & floor - no oil in drum or anything where it would touch clean cloths.

[Pegi]

Tranny only had the 5 year warranty, not labor....to have this replaced would have to be done by an authorized servicer...

[Hoser]

I have been examining where oil could have come from.  Tranny has oil in it, no?

So i looked at the top of the tranny, and there seems to be a small hole (needle-sized) in the very top of it (see pic).

Is this normal?  I was going to take the cover off to see if there was oil, but with all 8(or so?) bolts off, the cover won't come off....Do i need to take the shaft off first?

[Hoser]

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion regarding my last post.

The one with the picture of the tranny...

I (or my wife) would like the washer back together - heap big clothes mountains are developing.

If no one has an opinion or advise, I suppose I will just have to take it into a repair shop...

 

thanks

Dan

[Moostafa]

Hello, my tranny friend. The amount of oil that leaked out is undoubtedly miniscule. You would be well-advised to simply replace the transmission before you unnecessarily complicate a straight-forward repair.

[Hoser]

Hello, my tranny friend. The amount of oil that leaked out is undoubtedly miniscule. You would be well-advised to simply replace the transmission before you unnecessarily complicate a straight-forward repair.

I'm not sure if this is meant sarcastically or not... I guess if you have a 45 Gallon Drum of oil, take out one cup and dump it on the floor, then yes, it is miniscule compared to what it could be.  On the other hand, if you dump it on your laundry room floor, 1 cup of oil on a clean floor is still 1 cup of oil...

So anyways, I have replaced the tranny - at my own cost.  We bought this machine at the Brick (not sure what the American equivalent is...).  They are under federal investigation because they always have sales, and never sell anything for the "regular price".  They have a deal with the manufacturer where they buy the machines with no warranty, but the Brick covers the warranty through the manufacturer - or something.  Comes down to this - 5 year warranty on tranny.  Whirlpool covers warranty on tranny.  Whirlpool says to take it to any whirlpool approved repair shop with receipt.  W.A.Repair shop says "yes, no worries - 5 year warranty - no worries!...as long as it hasn't been bought at the brick..."  Whirlpool needs to send someone out, assess the problem (take apart washer, assess, put washer back together), leave, drive back to the repair shop, get parts, come out, take apart washer, fix washer, put washer back together.  $60.00 min. charge - for 20mins. max. $10.00 for each addition 10 mins or portion thereof.  They figure 1 hour min. to replace the tranny.  That is $100.00 min., plus the how ever long it took them to do the pull apart & put back together...  So basically my life sucks because The Brick sucks.

The washer does run quieter & faster now, so I guess it needed replacing.

So where are we at?

The following parts have been replaced:

drive block

Tranny (gear case)

Timer

There is still a periodic problem (1 in 2 or 3 loads - not consistantly reproducable)

Clothes finish dripping wet.

Start washer, stick screwdriver in the lid switch hole to keep washer running.

Washer agitates, starts to pump out.  Drum should start spinning (right?).  Drum is locked tight.  Turn off machine, turn back on, pumping out begins again, drum is now loose & starts to turn.

Someone told me that was a timer issue, but that has clearly not fixed the problem.

I also replaced the lid switch about 2 months ago - that isn't the problem.

Any Thoughts?

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Hoser, that's the way it is suppose to work, that's called "Neutral Drain".

The machine has to agitate at high speed for 8-10minutes which sets up the neutral drain pak inside the transmission.

Machine pause for a second then motor turns in opposite direction, which is neutal drain/spin. It should run for 2 min. then pause again for a secound or two, which unlocks the neutral latch.

Motor starts again and tub spins and machine also continues to drain, since pump is direct drive and is turning anytime the motor is on.

When you lift the lid that simulates the one to second timer puase. If you already replaced the timer, that's the only thing that controls the pause to shift from neutral to spin, so maybe your just being impatient when watching the machine with the screwdriver in the lid switch. Did you let it run in neutral for longer the 2 minutes before getting impatient and removing screwdriver to open lid switch?

[Hoser]

I have let it run thru an entire cycle a few times.  I have tried with the lid open & a screwdriver & also with the lid closed.  I have left the room & stood by the door so I woudn't be tempted to touch it.  When the entire wash ends, I go over to the washer, look at the clothes in the bottom, make the observation that they still look rather wet, pick up a piece of clothing, and burst into tears when I realize the towel weighs about 20 lbs and has water running out of it.  From this I come to the conclusion that the tub did not at any point actually spin - it just pumped whatever water was sitting in the tub.

help.

[Moostafa]

Hello, my concluding friend. May Allah take pity upon you and gird up your loins like a man to overcome this challenge to your domestic tranquility. This could be a simple problem, such as a defective lid switch. Our most beerly-beloved and vain-glorious host, Samurai Appliance Repair Man, has prepared an enlightening tome on this subject here.