GE Profile Model: PSB42LSRBBV Freezer Not Performing

[BradE]

Yep. Sorry Durham. You know what happens when you ASSume.

[RobGiba]

Good Evening Guys,

 

Wanted to give a quick update. Was able to replace the Freezer cabinet thermistor this morning.

 

As of 9:00pm, the freezer has not dropped below 65 degrees. As usual, the fresh food (refrigerator) section is performing great as

it has all along. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement, and suggests that I have to move into the next phase of this project.

 

To recap, all relevant electrical and electronic components have now been replaced in the quest to repair this freezer. The main PC board,

the freezer evaporator fan motor, the 3-way valve coil (just coil, not valve body) and both the freezer evap and freezer cabinet thermistors

have all been replaced with new parts.

 

Seems to me that this leaves the sealed system as the next phase in the quest to repair this nightmare system. I have to get access to the

sealed system it seems to me to start the next phase of diagnostics. But, as you know, this means recovery, braze in an access valve, 

replace drier, evacuation and weigh in new charge (8.11 oz). This is delicate brazing work, which is my greatest concern. As an HVAC guy,

I am accustomed to working on larger diameter tubing and not really skilled on these small tubes and even the capillaries if it comes to that.

 

If any of you could offer some brazing tips - that would be great. I have an air / acetylene torch (b tank), 15% Silfos, vacuum pump, digital

charging scale and of course R-134A. So, I am left to ponder - faulty 3-way valve? Restricted capillary tube? Compressor valves? The fact

that the refrigerator side continues to perform great in my mind puts less likelyhood of low refrigerant charge, but my confidence is strained

at this point.

 

Guys - hey thanks for everyone who has continued to follow this thread and contribute. Its very appreciated. As I cross over into the dark

side (sealed system) I may need all the guidance I can get from the experts.

 

R. Giba

Plano TX

[allheights]

what does frost pattern look like?? tells entire story..wouldn't change any parts with out seeing it first..

[RobGiba]

That will be the next step. Unfortunately, the way this unit is constructed, the freezer evap is fully encased in a plastic enclousre and then sits

mostly up in the machine compartment making it very difficult to access and visualize, especially to do this while operating the unit. If that is

the next logical step in troubleshooting, that's what it is and I will plan accordingly. 62-Deg in the freezer this moring. Fridge was 36-Deg. 

Freezer evap fan motor was running. (F.Y.I., I put the unit into diagnostic code 1-2 which runs all components at 100% for 1-hour. No difference

in freezer performance.)

[bjbarritt]

Rob,   I went through this same thing several years ago with a 48 built-in GE profile.  Only mine was still under warranty, so I let the GE Techs muck around with it until I couldn't' stand it anymore.  They went through the same progression, main PCB and  thermistors until on about the 4 trip they declared it to be a Freon leak in the freezer evap. coil.  That's when I stepped in and threw the BS flag.  When I questioned them on how could the fresh food side always be maintaining the correct temperature and just the freezer be off; they didn't have an answer.  I also questioned how they came to the conclusion that the freezer evap. coil was the leaker; again no good answer.  After my wife started to threaten me, I got involved with the area manager, he was backing up his techs.  I finally said "Great replace it all,  but then what are you going to do when it doesn't work."  They proceeded to sent a new Evap. coil and a new compressor to the house. When the Tech scheduled the next trip to install the coil and compressor I again questioned how he came to the conclusion that there was a Freon leak.  This system has one compressor, one condenser and two evaporators if there is a leak in the system the both the freezer and fresh food side would not be able to maintain temperature.  To make a long story short, when the Tech. showed up he brought a new 3 way valve, he had finally talked the  factory engineers and they agreed with me that they wasn't a Freon leak but the freezer was being starved for Freon.  He proceeded to replace the 3 way valve and the problem was solved.

 

Looking for a frost pattern on the coil will only show that there is a lack of Freon like a leak but it is the coil not getting the Freon from the 3 way valve.  If you replace the 3 way valve, remember it is delicate so you have to pack it in heat sink paste to prevent any damage from brazing it in.  Also the capillary tubes must be shortened and are very prone to closing up when shortened.  They need to scored and snapped off.  One tube has a piece of red tape around it be sure to match it with the one your are  replacing.

 

These high end refrigerators are very advanced and complex.  A lot of Tech's have never worked on something with this level of complexity, so there is a lot of confusion about what could be going on with them.  I my case the GE certified techs. didn't really understand the system.  Best of luck.

[RobGiba]

bjbarritt - thank you for taking the time to write out your experience with a similar model of refrigerator to mine. Your post was very insightful and of course familiar based upon the circumstances. Your post was very timely - thanks!!!

 

I'm into this unit for over $1000 now and every electrical component that could impact the operation of the freezer has now been replaced, each step resulting in even worse results. Worse is the erosion of confidence. Granted, I am not a refrigeration tech and

do not work on this type of product, my experience is with commercial HVAC VRF systems. Granted, many fundamentals, physics and component level troubleshooting techniques cross over. I definitely let subjectivity cloud my judgement on this one, and paid for it. The best I can hope for is to take a "lessons learned" attitude about it.

 

As fate would have it, I have a brand new 3-way valve body ready to go. Given to me by the appliance tech that changed the FZ evap fan motor, main control board and 3-way valve stepper motor. I am going to dive into this a bit closer to Christmas when I have some vacation days. In the mean time, I am going to source the heat sink paste, a new filter/drier and an access valve for install on the compressor process tube. 

 

Thank you as well for the tips on working with those capillaries. All invaluable information along with other posters tech guidance in this long thread. (Fortunately, I also have the GE Tech Service Guide for this unit.) I will post back when I take the next steps. Hopefully with good news - my wife's patience as well are dwindling at this point, but generally supportive.

 

R. Giba

Plano, TX

[RobGiba]

Friends and Experts on Appliantology,

I wanted to post back and let everyone that helped me along the way as well as new folks that stop by the forum looking for answers to a similar problem on a similar unit know that I was able to successfully repair my GE PSB42LSRBBV last week during the break between Christmas and New Years.
 

Apparently, all along the problem was a faulty 3-way valve. Once I replaced the 3-way valve, installed and installed a new filter/drier, the unit has been performing great for 5-days now maintaing 37 in the FF and 0 in the FZ compartments. Some of you that replied to my original posting offered critical guidance on technical procedures and steps for which I may not have had a successful outcome otherwise. Thank you immensely to all of you. I learned a lot along the way as well. Some notable observations throughout this process:

• I was surprised about the level of modification that direct GE replacement parts required for installation including thermistors and the filter/drier. (Different connectors, short cables and the drier about an inch longer.)
• I was surprised (inexperience really) how far the capillary tubes were inserted into the 3-way valve output lines. Made for a tricky brazing process on the disassembly. 
• Don't know how I would have done this project without the nice Diversitech brazing protection cloth that I invested in. Some of the best $40 I ever spent. Probably would have burned up half the machine compartment without it.
• I need a smaller brazing tip for my Turbo Torch. I have the second smallest, but the smaller size would have been better.
• Whatever the factory used to shellac some of the copper pipes made it difficult to braze some components.
• Factory pinched the process tube on the compressor about 3/4-inch from the shell. Thanks factory.
• The C&D charging valve made all the difference when dealing with 8.11oz of refrigerant.
  

In the end, I am happy to report that the unit appears to be peforming at specifications and soon I'll have a cheap, 1 month old 16-cu.ft. refrigerator for sale on Craigs List (fingers crossed). As stated, this GE (Samsung manufactured) unit is extraordinarily complex right down to the defrost sequence of operation that consumes a full page of the service guide for explanation. Thank you again to all of you on this Appliantology forum that helped and assisted me. A good example of what is great about the Internet and the communities that can be brought together.
 

Rob Giba, Plano TX

 

[RobGiba]

Friends and Experts on Appliantology,

I wanted to post back and let everyone that helped me along the way as well as new folks that stop by the forum looking for answers to a similar problem on a similar unit know that I was able to successfully repair my GE PSB42LSRBBV last week during the break between Christmas and New Years.
 

Apparently, all along the problem was a faulty 3-way valve. Once I replaced the 3-way valve, installed and installed a new filter/drier, the unit has been performing great for 5-days now maintaing 37 in the FF and 0 in the FZ compartments. Some of you that replied to my original posting offered critical guidance on technical procedures and steps for which I may not have had a successful outcome otherwise. Thank you immensely to all of you. I learned a lot along the way as well. Some notable observations throughout this process:

• I was surprised about the level of modification that direct GE replacement parts required for installation including thermistors and the filter/drier. (Different connectors, short cables and the drier about an inch longer.)
• I was surprised (inexperience really) how far the capillary tubes were inserted into the 3-way valve output lines. Made for a tricky brazing process on the disassembly. 
• Don't know how I would have done this project without the nice Diversitech brazing protection cloth that I invested in. Some of the best $40 I ever spent. Probably would have burned up half the machine compartment without it.
• I need a smaller brazing tip for my Turbo Torch. I have the second smallest, but the smaller size would have been better.
• Whatever the factory used to shellac some of the copper pipes made it difficult to braze some components.
• Factory pinched the process tube on the compressor about 3/4-inch from the shell. Thanks factory.
• The C&D charging valve made all the difference when dealing with 8.11oz of refrigerant.
  

In the end, I am happy to report that the unit appears to be peforming at specifications and soon I'll have a cheap, 1 month old 16-cu.ft. refrigerator for sale on Craigs List (fingers crossed). As stated, this GE (Samsung manufactured) unit is extraordinarily complex right down to the defrost sequence of operation that consumes a full page of the service guide for explanation. Thank you again to all of you on this Appliantology forum that helped and assisted me. A good example of what is great about the Internet and the communities that can be brought together.
 

Rob Giba, Plano TX

[Lighthouse]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you got it going.

[Jsmirh]

Hi Rob, I am having the same issue with my GE profile.  It's the same model as yours.  I had a service tech come out and he mentioned that I must have a slow leak.  Therefore, he cut-in a valve and added refrigerant to the system.  It seem to work fine for about a month or so, but now my freezer is back up to temps in the 30's.  Please advise if your refrigerator is still working properly.  Also, can you give me the part number for the 3 way valve.  My plan is to order it and get the tech to install.

Thank you in advance

Jeff  Bham Alabama

[RobGiba]

Hello Jsmirh - thank you for reaching out. My unit continued to operate normally for about 3 to 4 months and then started exhibiting the same problems all over again. Eventually I evacuated the unit again and charged it to the nameplate refrigerant volume. After doing that, the unit performed well for about another 5 months or so until again the freezer temps started creeping up and up. Evacuated the unit again and charged it to nameplate. As you guessed, working fine again. So. . . . . Obviously my unit does have a small refrigerant leak somewhere. Where?? Who knows. I have leak checked everything I could get to in the machine compartment, but that's as far as I've gone. The unit is too complicated and difficult to take apart to check much else. For now, I am going to continue to recharge the unit every 3 to 4 months until I have the cash together to purchase a new unit. As you know, these built-in units are very expensive. No offense to your unit - we paid over $5,000 for ours and it was a floor demo unit - but this thing has been the largest piece of junk that I ever got conned on. Every. And it stil stings. Everything has gone wrong with this piece of junk. The door struts have failed at over $235 a pop. It's leaked water in the fresh food compartment numerous times requiing a service visit by GE - $200 gone. The con-man so called technician that I had in to look at it when the freezer problems started lightened my wallet by $600 for a main control PCB and Freezer evap fan motor. Turns out there was nothing ever wrong with any of those components. Oh, and the ice chute door / motor cam has failed twice now $$$$ for repairs. And on and on and on. Never again will I purchase a single GE product after this experience, although I am aware that in reality our GE unit is a Korean made Samsung product with a GE label on it. Go figure. I wish I had better news for you. Maybe your tech can locate and repair the refrigerant leak. I just don't have it in me anymore to tear this machine apart. Every time I just look at it I get mad. Hope that helps you decide what to do. If you have other questions, feel free to reach out. Happy Easter.

[Jsmirh]

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the info.  I think that we paid about 6500 for our refrigerator.  We will not be purchasing GE appliances in the future.  Our tech mentioned that it will be too difficult to find and fix the leak in the system.   Therefore, I guess that we will be looking for a new refrigerator this week.  

Thanks again.  

Jeff  Bham Alabama

[Jsmirh]

Hi Rob, have you thought about adding refrigerant with stop leak?  I talk to a guy that said this may work.  He mention to try a can of R143a with stop leak like you get at autozone.. any thoughts?  Thank you in advance 

 

[Koi Guy]

1 hour ago, Jsmirh said:

Hi Rob, have you thought about adding refrigerant with stop leak?  I talk to a guy that said this may work.  He mention to try a can of R143a with stop leak like you get at autozone.. any thoughts?  Thank you in advance 

 

Don't do it. It'll clog things that shouldn't be clogged.

[Koi Guy]

This thread was weird, such resistance to tapping the system and checking refrigerant. If no leak than braze in a service valve. Rob said it was a progressive warm up from the very beginning- I don't suspect electronics on systems that warm up over several months. Besides that, a sumple check of thermistors would suffice. Poor guy could've tapped the system, added some dye and had his answer in couple weeks. Probably could've replaced the leaking part as well. Oh well....

[RobGiba]

Koi Guy - well said. I agree, weird thread. But, learned a lot in the process. Even though I'm a commercial HVAC guy, there are many technical similarities to refrigerantion, but then there are some distinct differences too. You make a good point too - systems that warm up over the course of several months is an excellent indicator of what is going on. In this case, things were over-thought just a bit too much.

Jsmirh - I agree with Koi Guy. Too many capillaries and small passages that in all likelihood would have or could have been clogged with a leak sealing product. For now, I'm resigned to adding refrigerant about once a quarter until I can afford to replace this monstrocity.

RobGiba. . . . . . . . . . . 

[Jsmirh]

Before I saw the posts, I went ahead and put the stop-leak in the system.   So far, so good.  At least it seems to be running good for now.  I will let you know if my good luck continues.   If not, I will buy a new one.  Probably a kitchenaid...

[Jsmirh]

It's been a week since I added the stop leak and refrigerant.  Still working good. 37-0