Dacor PGM365 Igniter problem

[Lanny Day]

I have a Dacor PGM365 gas cooktop where the front two burners light fine, but, when you cover them with a pan, the igniters turn back on.  The igniters stop clicking if you uncover the burner.  

I suspect it might be a grounding issue, but not sure how to track down because the problem only occurs when the burner is on and covered with a pan.

Has anyone heard of such a thing?

[northeastappliance]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried different types of pans(made of different material). 

[allheights]

weight of pan? all burners?? ive seen those micro switches go bad..

[stewartservice]

Check the igniter height and if it is secure / locked in place. Check burner for blocked holes etc.. 

[Lanny Day]

Thank you for your responses.  

I have tried a variety of pans, both materials and weights.  The behavior does not change.  I did disassemble/reassemble the burners and everything seemed tight.  There was some sort of gasket material under the burners that had dried and cracked.  I will replace that.

 

 

[mehoss]

Any update on this?  I have the exact same issue.  The burners that start igniting when a pan is added both are dual with the 'simmer feature'.  I note that the igniter appears to sense the simmer (middle small) flame only, when the simmer flame goes away - it starts re-ignition.  The middle flame comes and goes at various positions of the dual valve.  I'm thinking that this is the root of the problem.  I have seriously cleaned all the little holes everywhere and I DO see flames at various positions of the valve appear nicely around the simmer burner and thus no re-ignition.  So I'm thinking that the valves are not keeping the simmer open all the time during large flame settings.  May I assume that the small simmer flame should always be lit during operation?  If so that would seem to reinforce my defective valve suspicion.   

Anyone have experience fighting this issue successfully?  

[Hiroshi]

Does the lit flame of the burner encompass the ignitor electrode tip when the pan is in place?... The pan will spread the flame and change it's position possibly triggering the re-ignitor, in these systems the lit flame and the metal parts it touches become part of the circuit, so look closely at where the flame contacts and how that changes when setting the pan on it. Boil-overs can also cause corrosion and poor grounding quality- so metal brush the individual burner sections until they gleam...

[BrewHobbyTech]

6 hours ago, Hiroshi said:

Does the lit flame of the burner encompass the ignitor electrode tip when the pan is in place?

What Hiroshi explained in his post is exactly the first thing I would look for. Sounds like a broken circuit in which the flame and electrode completes the circuit, much like how many modern furnaces work with spark igntions. If they're not sensing the flame they will begin sparking again. Sand paper or wire brush all the electrodes and make sure they all have a good ground. You may have to replace the electrodes(one or more, or all of them), but try cleaning them first. See if that solves the problem. 

[mehoss]

The answer is no, the flame when absent from the circuit starts re-ignition.  The issue is for sure the flame absent from the circuit.  So it appears electrically A-OK.  Also the original complaint was re-ignition when a pan is put on the grate, but after my 'repair' it now happens even without a pan.    I cleaned and poked a gazillion holes, to no avail.

The issue is only on the dual burners that have a simmer feature in the middle.  There are positions where the simmer burner flames are perfect and strike the igniter, but not all positions of the valve.  It seems to me that the position of the igniter means that the mfg meant for the small simmer flame to be there at every valve position.  Yesterday I looked at an unrelated (GE I think) unit that also had a burner with the simmer feature.  I noticed on that one that the simmer portion of the burner stayed lit throughout the entire valve movement.  I ordered a new valve and burner- I'll get to the bottom of this yet.  Way past the point of profit on this job, now I'm paying tuition.

Edited September 15, 2016 by mehoss

[vee8power]

I've seen burners on re-ignition cooktops that have a second row of holes just beneath the main holes. Whenever the gas is on, at whatever the setting, they form like a halo of flame around the burner-like a pilot flame to satisfy the igniter. They're tiny holes and easily plugged.

[Hiroshi]

Comet cleaner should have a secondary name: Burner Spackle Orifice Clogger

[logikel]

I am experiencing the same issue as the original poster of this thread, when putting a pan on the front 2 burners, the igniter clicks on the Decor PGM365 stovetop.  I have replaced the ignition module and igniter and still have the issue.  I have also checked and cleaned all the little holes and burner.  Was thinking of replacing the igniter switch and maybe the cables.  Was there any resolution to the original post?  Thanks.

[Sw-dad]

@logikel did you ever figure it out? I’ve  had the same problem on one of the front burners for some time and now have it on another. Same issue only happens when any pan is put on the grate. No pan and it behaves normally. 

[VikingDaniel]

Ok, I have worked with the manufacture on this issue. It is a lack of oxygen at the center burner where the simmer would be and the igniter is. If you leave any pot in place but lower the over all output ( set to medium instead of full on ) you will see the flame return all the way around the center burner and the ticking stops. With the lack of oxygen, the flame on the center burner does not go fully around and will void where the electrode is. The problem is there are multiple possible causes for this and there isn't one set fix. I have replaced the entire burner assembly, everything but the hub (cooktop) and the problem remained and other times just replacing the burner itself fixed it. 

With that being said, if there are 2 burners doing the same thing, and they stopped working at the same time, ask more questions. Did they have new cabinetry installed they might be tighter and causing less over all air in the area of the cooktop. I hope some of this helps.

Daniel

[USA]

Thank you for describing the root of this problem, VikingDaniel.  I had this same issue after taking the cooktop apart to replace some LED’s that went out.  I did some testing and found that removing the wide ring that goes over the base of the assembly solved the problem but made the stove sound like a jet engine. Then I put the ring back on but with some spacers underneath it and this also solved the igniter firing with pan present issue. Finally, I tried tightening the three screws that secure the burner to the cooktop cover and when I did that and re-assembled the burner there was enough of a gap between the metal ring and the cooktop cover to allow oxygen into the burner and stop the igniter from firing even with the burner on high and a large pan on top of it.  
 

Hopefully this helps some of the others experiencing this issue.

[theloon]

So glad to hear others are experiencing the same issue.  My Dacor PGM365 cooktop has had this problem with the front burners for years, but seems to be progressively getting worse.  As Viking Daniel and USA have pointed out, the issue appears to be due to lack of oxygen to keep the simmer burners lit.  If I place a small fan to the side of the cooktop it helps greatly, but obviously this is not a great solution.     According to the installation guide the "air mixture shutters found in this appliance have been factory preset", so I'm not even sure if there's even an adjustment(?)

I tried USA's suggestion to raise the wide ring at the bottom and that only seems to make matters worse on my cooktop.   Removing the ring, however, did solve the problem.  (I did not get the "jet engine" sound that USA mentions.)   The only purpose I can see for this wide ring is to help direct spillovers away from the burner.     I think I might try the cooktop without the ring for a while.

Another thing I'll mention:   When the cooktop was new, the grates had rubber feet which melted away after a couple extended boils of homebrew.  With these rubber feet gone, the grate and pot is now closer to the cooktop.   As an experiment, I raised the grate 1/2" by placing a large nut under each foot of the grate.  This also seems to solve the problem.

[logikel]

@Sw-dad Have not resolved the issue although several of the suggestions help - removing the ring around the base (not a great option) and raising the grate a little bit.  Seems like a product defect based on how many people have this issue. I will get some wire brushes and clean the burner assembly and make sure things fit together well and see what happens.  Otherwise will have to use the workarounds permanently.

[jacobitisfixed]

@mehoss do you remember what wa the outcome of this repair?

 

[mehoss]

This was like 100 years ago, I think I gave up on it.  The customer was really nice about it and just accepted it as is.   After reading the previous posts it appears that some mentioned the rubber feet on the grates were missing.  Thinking back, I believe this may have been an issue for me as well.  If I had another to do, I would buy the thickest rubber feet that I could find to get that pan as high off of the grate as possible.

[Far field]

On 1/3/2016 at 11:27 AM, Lanny Day said:

I have a Dacor PGM365 gas cooktop where the front two burners light fine, but, when you cover them with a pan, the igniters turn back on.  The igniters stop clicking if you uncover the burner.  

I suspect it might be a grounding issue, but not sure how to track down because the problem only occurs when the burner is on and covered with a pan.

Has anyone heard of such a thing?

While you may be correct I’m thinking the spark is constantly there but the flame covers the air gap and that makes the sound disappear. Once the flame is gone the noise of spark returns and covering with a pan should not be doing this. Expect the pan is too close to the flame.