Kitchenaid Dryer KGYE900S Burner Won't Stay Lit; Coils Already Replaced

[gregger77]

I'm embarrassed to admit it, but my wife loves her 1989 Kitchenaid "Superba" laundry pair even more than me--I think. But I dutifully go on repairing them, with the help of forum friends.

This time around, the gas dryer was taking too long to dry clothes. I hadn't replaced the gas valve coils for about 14 years, so I decided to quick-swap them with brand new Whirlpool parts. That seemed to fix the problem for all of 24 hours.

My observations: When run "free vented," the gas valve clicks, the igniter glows nicely, the burner ignites, it runs for maybe one or two minutes, then the burner abruptly turns off. A few seconds later the gas valve closes. When I try to run it some more, the igniter glows but the burner does not ignite again; the igniter continues to cycle on and off every minute or so, but no luck.

This happens whether I am in an automatic cycle or a timed cycle. The control board is cutting off the automatic cycles when running empty at the correct times, so appears to be good.

So...would you say it is the gas valve itself; thermistor; high-limit thermostat? I guess if I go down the multitester path, I should also check the new coils and make sure they're in spec. Is there something I could have messed up?

(FYI---I found the on-board troubleshooting sheet says the thermistor resistance should be 1,000 to 15,000 ohms. High limit t-stat is checked by removing thermistor, blocking the vent totally and seeing if it the t-stat "trips" after 21 to 38 seconds.)

Thanks for any help.

-- Greg

[LI-NY Tech]

If the igniter glows, then you hear a clunk and the igniter goes out,  but no gas comes out, and the coils are new (and good), and the gas supply is good then it's a bad gas valve.  

[Thirstytech]

2 hours ago, LI-NY Tech said:

If the igniter glows, then you hear a clunk and the igniter goes out,  but no gas comes out, and the coils are new (and good), and the gas supply is good then it's a bad gas valve.  

Yes sir. Given the fact that it's 27 years old I'd say the ol' girl needs a new one. 

[sh2sh2]

I would swap the coils again, poss you got a bad set. Easier the swapping the whole valve 

[Hiroshi]

I have had a customer with a similar problem: the machine was perfect, but an icy rain had turned the lint blockage at his vent terminus into an air-tight cap of ice! The burner would fire, then very lazily lick the top of the burner tube and go out. If you haven't cleaned that exhaust duct in a while, check it for lint and/or unwanted residents packing it with mud and leaves

[gregger77]

15 hours ago, LI-NY Tech said:

If the igniter glows, then you hear a clunk and the igniter goes out,  but no gas comes out, and the coils are new (and good), and the gas supply is good then it's a bad gas valve.  

Thanks guys, great input. Hiroshi, as noted, I have this trouble even when running "free vented" (by that, i meant with vent disconnected and dryer pulled away from wall). 

I will double check the coils to make sure they're good (and I installed them properly without overtightening etc.)

If still "good," how would I diagnose the valve before actually replacing it? I don't mind replacing but would like to be reasonably sure.

Thanks very much!

-- Mr. Soggy Clothes

[Hiroshi]

So, the flame is intense and being pulled forcefully toward the back of the burner tube while the exhaust is off? I mentioned the ice cap issue more for its mention of how the burner flame looks under restricted conditions- it's how it would look if it was tripping the high limit in most cases. I would have my hall effect and meter out, trying to see if the coils are being de-energized when the gas cuts out...

[gregger77]

Thanks for clarifying Hiroshi. I will reconnect the exhaust vent and double check for no impact to good strong flame (vs. lazy as you described). When you say "back" of burner tube, do you mean toward rear of dryer?

If I follow you...if I see a drop in energy to the coils, thus cutting the gas out, it's possibly due to the high-limit switch?

[Hiroshi]

Yes- the flame should be mostly horizontal toward the back of the dryer. Yes, if you catch it at the moment of failure, a hall effect indicator (or as some call it, the magic wand) will read voltage on one side of the hi-limit, no voltage on the other. If you moved quickly, you could unplug it when it failed and meter the hi-limit for continuity (after removing a terminal), but the hall effect method is much faster- and if the valve is closing because it is de-energized, there is another cause and no need to replace the valve itself. As sh2sh2 mentioned, it is a possibility you have bogus coils out of the bag, but usually they wouldn't fail so consistently at one minute. Does it seem to need cool down time before re-start? Could be a brittle cycle thermostat too, but that is rare indeed...

[sh2sh2]

If the problem was the high limit or anything like that the igniter would not be glowing, if the igniter is glowing then going out it is a problem with the coils or valve

[gregger77]

Thanks. How often does a gas valve go bad? One experienced tech I chatted with said in 30 odd years of dryer repair he's only replaced a couple !!

[Hiroshi]

Yes, that is my experience as well, I have only replaced a couple that were in floods, and even that was only because the safety torx screws were corroded into the valve body...

These valves are straight forward in design and are easy to clean and re-assemble, if you take your time, mind the diaphragm,  and don't mix up the primary and secondary valve stem, a gentle cleaning with 90% rubbing alcohol usually does the trick if the valves are sticking in their seats.

... if a gas dryer is short-cycling, it will be operating off of the hi-limit in most cases

 

[gregger77]

I went ahead and replaced the coils; one of them was testing bad (resistance on the three-terminal coil was too high between 1 and 2). When replacing, I noticed my gas valve shaft was missing the little "spacer/sleeve". Faking it with a sleeve of alum. foil did not help matters; burner would ignite but then not reignite correctly after a pause. 

 

I ordered a new gas valve, but before replacing it, I "stole" the spacer/sleeve off of the appropriate shaft and installed it on the old gas valve. I had determined that this was lost/missing when replacing the coils.

It's still firing up fine, but then failing to re-ignite after a pause. This time, interestingly, I am hearing a bit of a buzzing sound from the coils--I assume as they are trying to operate the gas valve. 

I am thinking since I have it, I should go ahead and install the new gas valve and see if that resolves it. It is 27+ years old.

[gregger77]

In trouble already. 

Well in replacing the valve I'm already stuck. There is a free-spinning brass coupler on the tail of a short nipple that is installed to the valve body. The valve mounting bracket is between the value and the coupler. I have no idea how to get the coupler off so I can remove the valve. There is not enough room between the coupler and the bracket to get a vice grip or channel-lock pliers on it (which might strip the nipple threads as well).

Any ideas? Laundry piling up. I took a picture of the connection issue but I have no idea how to post an attachment.

[AARDL]

Try to use the app dropbox of something similar for pics.

[gregger77]

Problem solved, I think. I tested the new coils and found the larger one was bad. So I "borrowed" a good one from the new gas valve kit and we're off and running again.

Thanks to everyone for the excellent input and suggestions. 

 

[AARDL]

Glad to hear

[Budget Appliance Repair]

And for anyone else or you future needs,  the gas valve union coupler and short pipe stub is removed with the appropriate size Allen wrench going down center of pipe stub.

[gregger77]

Thanks Willie. I didn't crane my neck far enough to see that inside the coupler! I knew there must be SOME way... 

[gregger77]

By the way, I needed to borrow the "sleeve / spacer" from the valve shaft off the replacement gas valve I bought. I need to find some way to replace it, before I can return the unused valve.

Any suggestions?

[gregger77]

On 7/2/2016 at 9:44 AM, gregger77 said:

By the way, I needed to borrow the "sleeve / spacer" from the valve shaft off the replacement gas valve I bought. I need to find some way to replace it...

I figure out that I should call the manufacturer and ask for one (duh!) Of course all these valves are White-Rodgers, so I called their tech support, emailed them a picture of what I was missing, and they're sending me a replacement (plus a couple of spares). Voila!