LAT5000AAW Maytag Transmission Problem?

[tracker1312]

We have a Maytag we bought used a couple years ago, it was manufactured in 1993, model LAT5000AAW. We really like it and were disappointed when we found it was leaking a couple weeks ago. I researched it, and determined that the tub seal was leaking, so we ordered a new tub seal from RepairClinic and I followed a video on youtube, and put it in. Now, the machine had been running just fine before I discovered that it was leaking, and when we were looking for where it was leaking, the transmission was turning just fine while the machine was running. We didn't use the machine for about two weeks while waiting for me to have time to work on it. Today I put the new tub seal in, and upon testing it, we were glad to see it was no longer leaking. However, as we ran the machine we started smelling a burning smell and it was smoky (not sure exactly what was smoking, but I'm assuming the belts or motor over working), and we turned it off, and I realized that the transmission wasn't turning. I am not sure what to do because it had been working fine.

Is it possible that the leaking water caused the transmission to seize up in the interim even though it had been running just fine the last time it was run two weeks ago?

Should I be able to turn the transmission by hand? We are not sure if this is possible, as we didn't try it before. I have watched several videos and read several posts here and it seems like on some models it should turn, but am unsure about my model. The pulley on the bottom turns, but I tried turning the transmission itself and it does not turn. I don't know what to check here.

Is there anything I should troubleshoot before assuming it is the whole transmission that is bad?

One thing, I removed the outer tub because I thought it was necessary to replace the tub seal but then realized it wasn't. I cleaned it up since I had it out, and now I'm wondering it it's possible the tub bearing could cause it not to turn? The video I watched showed them replacing that but we looked at the tub bearing and the sleeve, we decided they were okay, RepairClinic didn't mention this as being a source of leaking, and we didn't have that part so we wiped it all down making sure it was clean, and put everything back together. I would think that if that was bad that would cause a noise and not stop the transmission from turning entirely, but I don't know for sure. I did not apply any lube to the sleeve, the video I watched didn't say to do that, but another video I saw after did. I am unsure if that could cause this problem.

The machine is not making any weird noises, no grinding or anything. When we tried to run it again, just to try to troubleshoot, we observed that the agitator tried to turn, but then stopped. I don't want to damage the motor or anything else by running it. Just not sure at all what to do next.

I hope this all makes sense, I've worked on this so many hours today and it is so late. Thank you all in advance for any advice or anything I could check or troubleshoot to see about fixing this.

[evaappliance]

Always replace the tub bearing with a leaking tub seal . You should be able to reuse your seal . Take care taking it off.  Very good washer , well worth fixing!

[evaappliance]

Also sometimes the brake can stick if it was leaking on it a lot , and it sits a while.  Doesn't happen very often , but no matter your bearing will not last long so even if it is the brake stuck go ahead and put a new bearing in !

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Sounds to me like a frozen up agitator shaft in upper transmission housing caused from the leaking tub seal, letting it sit for a couple weeks while waiting to fix and it seized.

If you ran it in spin when you finished and the basket spun OK then it has nothing to do with the tub bearing or seal.

That part where you said the agitator turned a little and stopped tells me that is most likely the cause of the problem, if you can't turn the transmission pulley very easily in the agitate direction by hand then the belt will not turn and it will burn up from the motor pulley just spinning in one spot on the belt.

[evaappliance]

Sorry , I thought by ( turning ) he ment spinning in the spin cycle.   That last paragraph gets me every time !

Edited August 13, 2016 by evaappliance
I'm a idiot

[tracker1312]

Thank you all so much for your help. I don't know anything about washers except what I've learned in the last bit watching videos. We did not try a spin cycle when we first put it back together so I don't know if it would have spinned. We started a load and observed it agitating to begin with but of course it quit being able to agitate before the load was done. My brother-in-law has the same machine or similar and he said his agitator did not turn by hand so I'm assuming this is normal on this model? 

For turning the pulley underneath, should we see the transmission or some part of it turn, like should the agitator turn? I could turn the pulley in both directions I think but the transmission did not itself turn like it does when it's in spin cycle. I'm not sure what I should be looking for here, what movement is to be expected that is.

If we were to take the transmission apart is there a way to tell if it is indeed the shaft that has seized, would this be fixable if we opened up the transmission or would we need a whole new transmission?

As far as know it was not leaking a lot but I'm not sure how long it may have been leaking a small quantity that I did not see. 

Thank you all again for your help!

[evaappliance]

the pulley  should spin counter clockwise with little effort , it is geared very low so you have to turn it several rounds to see the agitator move. on a good transmission if it stops in the right place you can move it a little form the top but most of the time you can't .  very possible to fix , especially if it is not locked completely down. just try to fix yours first.  while you are fixing that , i would go ahead and replace that spin bearing too.  sorry for misunderstanding earlier . 

Edited August 13, 2016 by evaappliance

[tracker1312]

Hey, thanks again for the help. So, I turned the transmission pulley counter-clockwise and we observed that the upper shaft of the transmission was indeed rotating slowly (we had removed the agitator while trying to troubleshoot this). If it's rotating, then it isn't seized is it? We still have the front off, and the transmission itself does not turn, like when it is in spin cycle. It does not budge, it cannot be turned by hand. Perhaps the bearing is damaged after all and do you think that could be causing the transmission not to turn? Do you think it would be worth trying to replace the bearing before messing with the transmission? Is there anyway to test to see if the transmission will turn like it does during the spin cycle without turning the machine on? Also, what about the brake? Could it cause this? Is there something I should check next?

Thanks again for your help

[BrewHobbyTech]

Just a quick response here.......tip the washer back, rotate the large center pulley one way a few turns and the opposite a few turns. I forget which way is spin, but see if you can get the basket to spin, and also check the belt, since you smelled some burning, see how much damage there is to it. Anyway, if you're able to turn the pulley and get the inner basket to start turning, level it back onto the floor and put it into spin and see what happens......hey, and before you do any of this.....take a flashlight and look into the pump.....make sure nothing(a sock, etc.) has been sucked into it, and take the belt off and spin the pump pulley to make sure it turns freely(spin in both ways). These pumps are prone for failure(bearing failure). If everything checks out okay then put the belt back on and try the spin cycle and listen/feel for it spinning......or watch/smell for smoke......LOL    

 

 

[tracker1312]

17 minutes ago, BrewHobbyTech said:

Just a quick response here.......tip the washer back, rotate the large center pulley one way a few turns and the opposite a few turns. I forget which way is spin, but see if you can get the basket to spin, and also check the belt, since you smelled some burning, see how much damage there is to it. Anyway, if you're able to turn the pulley and get the inner basket to start turning, level it back onto the floor and put it into spin and see what happens......hey, and before you do any of this.....take a flashlight and look into the pump.....make sure nothing(a sock, etc.) has been sucked into it, and take the belt off and spin the pump pulley to make sure it turns freely(spin in both ways). These pumps are prone for failure(bearing failure). If everything checks out okay then put the belt back on and try the spin cycle and listen/feel for it spinning......or watch/smell for smoke......LOL    

 

 

The belts appear to be okay as far as I can tell, we caught it smoking quickly and shut it off. Turning the transmission pulley by hand counter clockwise turns the agitator, but I turned it clockwise and nothing happens. The inner basket and transmission itself do not turn.

I will check the pump pulley tomorrow, but I believe the pump is okay. I'm curious, why would the pump cause it not to spin? I don't know anything about how these washers work except what I've read here in the last few days.

I'm wondering if maybe the tub bearing is damaged from us taking the outer tub off and cleaning it. I'm wondering if a damaged tub bearing could cause the transmission not to spin.

[BrewHobbyTech]

36 minutes ago, tracker1312 said:

The belts appear to be okay as far as I can tell, we caught it smoking quickly and shut it off. Turning the transmission pulley by hand counter clockwise turns the agitator, but I turned it clockwise and nothing happens. The inner basket and transmission itself do not turn.

I will check the pump pulley tomorrow, but I believe the pump is okay. I'm curious, why would the pump cause it not to spin? I don't know anything about how these washers work except what I've read here in the last few days.

I'm wondering if maybe the tub bearing is damaged from us taking the outer tub off and cleaning it. I'm wondering if a damaged tub bearing could cause the transmission not to spin. 

Okay, so you have a real "Maytag"....and not the Magic Chef design......

 

........never mind.......  

 

The Maytag pumps are on the right front(looking from the front), and almost never go bad. The brake may have seized up if the inner basket will not turn. If you can turn the pulley and the inner basket won't go into spin I would say it's a bad transmission, but it would be very odd for two problems to occur at the same time, but not totally out of the ordinary. Could be the bearing also as others have said. Turbine oil is must have on any truck, and should be used when doing a repair such as this. I've seen a lot of strange stuff happen. I'm hoping what you're experiencing is something simple, especially since you've already put so much time and effort into trying to fix your washer. Good luck bro......

 

 

 

[evaappliance]

21 hours ago, evaappliance said:

Always replace the tub bearing with a leaking tub seal . You should be able to reuse your seal . Take care taking it off.  Very good washer , well worth fixing!

 

21 hours ago, evaappliance said:

Also sometimes the brake can stick if it was leaking on it a lot , and it sits a while.  Doesn't happen very often , but no matter your bearing will not last long so even if it is the brake stuck go ahead and put a new bearing in !

Yes , it can . Always a good idea to spin the pump , but that won't be your issue if you can't turn the main pulley by hand. May just be my area but in 24 years of working on old school maytags I have had very few pumps to fail. I think they could be the best pump ever made, but that's just my experience 

[BrewHobbyTech]

13 hours ago, evaappliance said:

 

 I think they could be the best pump ever made, but that's just my experience 

I agree 100%. Best pumps I've ever seen.......meaning.......I've rarely had to replace any in 23-24 years. My guess is that some engineer screwed up and was probably fired at some point because he or she designed a part that rarely failed. Can't make money on repair/replacement parts if they don't fail. It's an effed up world we now live in......the twilight zone as I like to refer to it..........But hey........that's why beer and other alcoholic beverages were invented........or discovered.....or whatever one's vice may be........I remember the "good old days".........I think.........but that was a while ago........I now probably have brain damage from all the appliances I've worked on over the years......or it's from all the crap I've had to go through all these years being an appliance repair tech.........I don't know........

 

Either way it goes back to.....that's why beer and other alcoholic beverages were invented......or discovered.....yaddy ya.....

 

 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

I think I know what your problem is!!!!

I didn't think about this before because I was thinking this was one of the new ones, (It has the orbital transmission and I just worked on a LAT2500 model that had the plastic tub cover that clips on).    Yours has the old original style metal tub cover with stainless steel clamping band and rubber seal.

When you reinstalled the tub cover you most likely pushed it all the way down and it is holding the spin basket from turning, you have to have a fingers width between tub cover and top of spin basket.

Loosen the clamping ring and pull top over up about an inch then carefully slide a pinkie finger between tub cover and top of spin basket and gently tap the cover down on your finger, make it even all the way around and re-tighten the clamping band.

[BrewHobbyTech]

47 minutes ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

I think I know what your problem is!!!!

I didn't think about this before because I was thinking this was one of the new ones, (It has the orbital transmission and I just worked on a LAT2500 model that had the plastic tub cover that clips on).    Yours has the old original style metal tub cover with stainless steel clamping band and rubber seal.

When you reinstalled the tub cover you most likely pushed it all the way down and it is holding the spin basket from turning, you have to have a fingers width between tub cover and top of spin basket.

Loosen the clamping ring and pull top over up about an inch then carefully slide a pinkie finger between tub cover and top of spin basket and gently tap the cover down on your finger, make it even all the way around and re-tighten the clamping band.

That's pretty good, and something I forgot, and it does bring back memories(none good), but that wouldn't stop it from agitating.......unless I'm missing something......like my mind.........but that was good.......you threw a dart......Kinda like the Bay City Rollers........and you did it on a Saturday night, well......almost. Hey close enough......good stuff man.....I should probably send ya a beer.......  

...cheers...... 

 

 

[tracker1312]

You sir are the most amazing person on the entire planet! Yes the video I watched showed the plastic clip type and that was the problem! Our washing machine works great now, thank you all so very much!

4 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

I think I know what your problem is!!!!

I didn't think about this before because I was thinking this was one of the new ones, (It has the orbital transmission and I just worked on a LAT2500 model that had the plastic tub cover that clips on).    Yours has the old original style metal tub cover with stainless steel clamping band and rubber seal.

When you reinstalled the tub cover you most likely pushed it all the way down and it is holding the spin basket from turning, you have to have a fingers width between tub cover and top of spin basket.

Loosen the clamping ring and pull top over up about an inch then carefully slide a pinkie finger between tub cover and top of spin basket and gently tap the cover down on your finger, make it even all the way around and re-tighten the clamping band.

 

[BrewHobbyTech]

Could you please post a link to the video, I gotta see this......I might have to start throwing darts....and nobody wants to see that.......

 

I'm still trying to figure out how it would stop it from agitating, but I guess the video would help me out. Thanks

[evaappliance]

Great !  Sorry I also thought your model was one with the plastic ring, budget is the man for catching that !  I was thinking when they went to the Lat prefix they went to the plastic one !

[tracker1312]

 

11 hours ago, BrewHobbyTech said:

Could you please post a link to the video, I gotta see this......I might have to start throwing darts....and nobody wants to see that.......

 

I'm still trying to figure out how it would stop it from agitating, but I guess the video would help me out. Thanks

This is the video I used to replace the tub seal, you see it has the plastic clip-on top. Mine is the older kind, it has a rubber seal and metal clamp ring. It slides down further than it should. What's funny is we did notice that the water wasn't coming out quite the same way when we put it back on, but figured it was because maybe we didn't have the inlet in quite the same place or something. It never occurred to us that the top was too low. It's working great now, but we found that the outer tub seal needs to be replaced too, it's got some rust and pitting on it and not making a tight seal so water is leaking out of the tub a little during the spin cycle. We've ordered a seal and I'm assuming after that this washer might last another thirty years lol. Thanks again everyone for all your help!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tracker1312]

I should have posted a picture, this is the kind that we have, I took this before we started. Manufactured in 1993 according to what I read online.

[tracker1312]

Sorry - I don't know why the post didn't attach the picture - and I don't see a way to edit it

[Budget Appliance Repair]

For not being an appliance tech you did an excellent job, this is a problem that I'm sure even many novice techs have had!!!!

The model numbering is crazy, the one I just worked on was an LAT2500AAE (Manufactured in 12/2001) and it had the plastic clip on tub ring.   I didn't look up yours at first so just assumed the LAT5000AAW would be the same vintage, (It's not, it is 1993 vintage as you say).

Just a note/question for other experienced techs here, The LAT2500AAE on the console is named a "Performa" which I have only known to be the FAKE Maytag/after Maytag purchased MagicChef and turned the Maytag name to trash.  This one had the "Performa" label on the console and the console styling looked like the single belt Performa models but still the 2 belt dependable care line.   Is this the transition year when they were just phasing out the good old dependable care line to the Norge platform purchased from MagicChef?

[Budget Appliance Repair]

18 hours ago, BrewHobbyTech said:

Could you please post a link to the video, I gotta see this......I might have to start throwing darts....and nobody wants to see that.......

 

I'm still trying to figure out how it would stop it from agitating, but I guess the video would help me out. Thanks

It wouldn't stop it from agitating, some bad info at beginning or not explained correctly.

This is what lead me in the direction of the seized agitator shaft:

Quote

The machine is not making any weird noises, no grinding or anything. When we tried to run it again, just to try to troubleshoot, we observed that the agitator tried to turn, but then stopped. I don't want to damage the motor or anything else by running it. Just not sure at all what to do next.

 

[evaappliance]

2 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

For not being an appliance tech you did an excellent job, this is a problem that I'm sure even many novice techs have had!!!!

The model numbering is crazy, the one I just worked on was an LAT2500AAE (Manufactured in 12/2001) and it had the plastic clip on tub ring.   I didn't look up yours at first so just assumed the LAT5000AAW would be the same vintage, (It's not, it is 1993 vintage as you say).

Just a note/question for other experienced techs here, The LAT2500AAE on the console is named a "Performa" which I have only known to be the FAKE Maytag/after Maytag purchased MagicChef and turned the Maytag name to trash.  This one had the "Performa" label on the console and the console styling looked like the single belt Performa models but still the 2 belt dependable care line.   Is this the transition year when they were just phasing out the good old dependable care line to the Norge platform purchased from MagicChef?

hey willie,  they did put the preforma  name on some of the real ones between 2000 & 2002 , preforma was also on the fake ones at the same time. from  1997 to 1999 the magic chief made ones were called preforma by maytag .along the lines that you are thinking , it was a effort to fool the customers in typical  maytag  fashion. 

[evaappliance]

2 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

It wouldn't stop it from agitating, some bad info at beginning or not explained correctly.

This is what lead me in the direction of the seized agitator shaft:

 

it was a little tricky for sure !