GE GNE29GGKWW Refigerator:Question about freezer frost in brand new fridge.

[john63]

Any chance that the old side by side was a GE or Hotpoint?

[soulweeper]

On 2/7/2017 at 6:15 PM, john63 said:

Any chance that the old side by side was a GE or Hotpoint?

It was from Sears, and I'm pretty certain it was Whirlpool. I got a few parts for it, and Whirlpool sticks in my head.

 

[soulweeper]

@john63

I had never hit submit on my last reply.....sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, haha.

So the guy came back with the proper update, and installed it, and it said one of the issues it took care of, was frost build up in the evaporator, so apparently this model has had an issue with that. I asked the guy if that could be why I'm getting this frost/ice in my freezer. He said if all the ice isn't melting off the evaporator, then maybe the fan is pushing that moist air around inside, and it could be. It king of sounded logical to me, but my assumption is that it takes warm air to create the condensation, that then freezes, but again, I'm not a tech, nor refrigeration expert.

That said, it was a Friday, and he said I'd have to give it at least over the weekend, and let it go through a few defrost cycles, to know if the update changed anything. Made perfect sense to me.

 

It seemed like it was a little better after the weekend has passed, but hard to say, as it wasn't a set amount of frost/ice. But then, this morning, it was frosted up again, with both the "fuzzy" frost, and the frozen droplets on the freezer drawer.

Here's what seems weird to me, but might not be.....last night, the couple times I checked it, it was crystal clear, pretty much, with no frost/ice. We went to bed, no one touched that freezer all night, and about 6am or so, my wife opened it to get something, and this is what it looked like:

http://imgur.com/pJ0zji9

http://imgur.com/7ySCvM4

http://imgur.com/Pj03xqK

So, where does the warm air come, in the middle of the night, from inside of a closed unit? The tech said it would almost have to come from the defroster, since it creates heat. That makes sense, but is that normal? The tech said that GE didn't have an answer, and their only suggestion was to replace the board, and maybe install this "moisture kit". The tech also tells me that the moisture kit has nothing to with the freezer section, and that it's something that is designed to prevent frost from forming on the refrigerator section fan, causing it to go out of balance. It doesn't sound like it has anything at all to do with this ice issue.

He called today, and said he hadn't been able to get  a hold of GE, and wanted to know if I wanted him to come by next week, and replace the board, and put in the moisture kit. His computer program essentially told him everything was working normally with the fridge, and that there was an update available, so I don't know why he'd replace the board. He mentioned the moisture kit, as it replaces the fan, and I had said I thought the fan was a little loud, but then reviews on this fridge said it was kind of a loud fridge, so I don't know what is considered loud. He should know when he's standing in my kitchen, I would think. I don't see the sense in replacing the board, if his computer program essentially told him the fridge was operating normally.
 

Bottom line......he doesn't know, and GE doesn't seem to know. I kind of think it's "normal", but I'm sure not a tech.

Where do you think the warm air comes from, especially in the middle of the night, like last night, when it's closed all night?

[john63]

If GE is offering to replace the Main Board...by all means have this done. Software programming is continually tweaked/altered in an attempt to reduce moisture...usually relating to defrost heater duration and/or length of delay for the fan motor(s) to start up/run after the defrost cycle ends...if the fan motor starts running too early after the defrost cycle ends...this will whip moisture throughout the compartment...creating a sheen of snow or ice.

As for moisture...during the defrost cycle...a lot of water is created when the frost on the evaporator coils melts...most of it drops into a drain trough...and drain hole...to the defrost tray under the refrigerator.

Water/moisture is also introduced to the icemaker...this will eventually freeze....any uncovered container with liquids that are in the refrigerator can also contribute to moisture.

Bottom line...If a free update or improved component is being offered...definitely take it:)

 

[soulweeper]

13 minutes ago, john63 said:

If GE is offering to replace the Main Board...by all means have this done. Software programming is continually tweaked/altered in an attempt to reduce moisture...usually relating to defrost heater duration and/or length of delay for the fan motor(s) to start up/run after the defrost cycle ends...if the fan motor starts running too early after the defrost cycle ends...this will whip moisture throughout the compartment...creating a sheen of snow or ice.

As for moisture...during the defrost cycle...a lot of water is created when the frost on the evaporator coils melts...most of it drops into a drain trough...and drain hole...to the defrost tray under the refrigerator.

Water/moisture is also introduced to the icemaker...this will eventually freeze....any uncovered container with liquids that are in the refrigerator can also contribute to moisture.

Bottom line...If a free update or improved component is being offered...definitely take it:)

 

That all makes sense, but he just updated the main board that is in the fridge, after he had ordered the other main board. It seems the update that he installed, would be the latest update, so how would swapping the board be any different? That's a serious question, not being sarcastic.

What really pisses me off is, the first time he showed up, it was without calling, and I didn't have any warning to empty the fridge, like he said he would give me, so we rescheduled. He had his laptop in hand that day, but I didn't think much of it. So on the rescheduled day, he tells me I should empty the fridge, which I did. He shows up, plugs his laptop in, and checks some stuff, and tells me nothing seems wrong, but he has to go back and get the update, so I can put my stuff back in. He comes another day with the update. If he wanted to throw this "moisture kit" in, he should have done it when the effin fridge was empty. Now I'd have to empty it again, and no one knows if it will change anything. That baffles me. GE suggested that, with nothing to back it up.

What I'm getting at is....how can a main board that was ordered before an update was done, be an improved component? Seems like the updated motherboard would be the latest, no?

I think the refrigerator fan is a bit loud, but it's just my guess. Do you know what this moisture kit is, that he's referring to? I'm assuming it's something that is added, after the fact??

Do you think that ice in the latest pics I just posted links to, is "normal", or excessive?

 

[soulweeper]

@john63

Did you read my previous post? Just curious what you thought.

[john63]

The frost in the freezer does look average and therefore does not concern me at all.

I don't know what a "moisture kit" is either. It could be a main board and temperature thermistors.

[soulweeper]

He said the moisture kit is something that prevents frost build up on the fan in the refrigerator section, that would cause the fan to go out of balance. That's what he said. Kind of an odd description, but he ordered it.

So, you would consider the frozen droplets of water on that drawer, fairly normal?

Also.....would you say that if he updated our main board, that putting in a new board that he'd ordered prior, wouldn't be any more "updated?"

[john63]

The "new" normal:)

Let them do whatever is recommended by GE.

The replacement board may have the latest software tweak already on it.

[soulweeper]

Just now, john63 said:

The "new" normal:)

Let them do whatever is recommended by GE.

The replacement board may have the latest software tweak already on it.

Well, it couldn't have the latest software tweak, if the board he ordered, came in before he went and got the update for my current board, correct?

He said if put this board in, he's have to check afterwards to see if it needed an update. My point is, my update could be newer than the the board sitting in his shop. The tech told he didn't know...he couldn't read the software versions??

[john63]

Have the tech examine the new main board for labels.

On LG main boards...the software ID is shown on a sticker.

This may not be so...on GE boards.

Worth checking...

 

[soulweeper]

1 minute ago, john63 said:

Have the tech examine the new main board for labels.

On LG main boards...the software ID is shown on a sticker.

This may not be so...on GE boards.

Worth checking...

 

Ok thank you. I hate to say it, but my thought was, it can't be that hard to find out, but I'm not a tech. GE should know which software version was on a board they shipped. You see my point, right. We could potentially go backwards if he puts this board ion. It could end up needing the same update as the board that is in there. I think I'm correct with the theory.

[john63]

Understood.

Ask the tech to make a visual on the board for a software version tag...

Write it down on your owner manual for record keeping.

[soulweeper]

Good idea. I'm just trying to avoid him doing something that is redundant. He should be thinking the same thing, but I don't think he is. GE didn't even recommend these two parts, it was just a suggestion. It seems they should have told him to see if needed an update, before anything else. He should know that. They're short handed right now, and I think he knows his stuff, but he's primarily the inside parts guy, so he's not in that mode, maybe. *shrug*

[soulweeper]

@john63

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this picture of a main board, from the GE site, is that the software version on the right hand side?

http://imgur.com/zAqv8Dm

And also.....I found a bulletin regarding this moisture kit he was telling me about.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwiy3Oj2g57SAhVQHGMKHVjbCDoQFggmMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.applianceblog.com%2Fmainforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D29867%26d%3D1472150015&usg=AFQjCNEJMTnkmF-YjRwfZdxM1R2ci7wW3A&sig2=5wNsfMTsC0gleTeX-Plfmg&cad=rja

Shouldn't he have known about this, as he only said that we could replace it as he said that I said I wasn't happy with the fan noise. What I really told him was, "doesn't that seem a bit loud?", when he was in my kitchen. He said no, but I still think it is. But just because I think it is, doesn't mean it's normal. I was asking him.

If I'm understanding the bulletin correctly, it's saying that the fan motor can be perceived as being, but it's just the way it is??? Because at the end it's saying only to replace it if their is moisture found on the fan blade, but you'd only know that if you took it out and looked at it, correct? If that's the case, the day he came to my house, when he had asked me to empty the fresh food section, should he have taken a look then? Seems like the smart thing to do, and had he read this bulletin, I'd think he would have. Instead he plugged his laptop into it, looked at some program, and said nothing seemed abnormal, and I might as well put my food back in. To be fair, maybe GE shuld have told him there is a bulletin out, and to physically check that fan.

Thoughts?

And thanks.

[soulweeper]

@john63

Did you happen to see my previous post?

[john63]

I'm not familiar with GE software identification numbers (on the board). It *appears* to indicate/show that this board has the original or first software version.

As for the "moisture kit bulletin"...

That does look familiar.

Recently...LG French door refrigerator models were exhibiting the same noise symptoms that you're getting...in addition to unwanted frost accumulation...on the lower left side of the MultiDuct Asst (center panel in fresh food compartment).

LGs fix was to replace the Main Board...with a software re-write in it...that allows the defrost heater to remain energized for 5 additional minutes (more thorough defrosting).

And to replace the MultiDuct Assy...this has an improved seal...to control moisture intrusion near the fam motor.

 

[john63]

I cannot answer the question about whether or not the GE tech ought to know/be aware of service bulletins.

I've never been an authorized servicer for GE.

Their tech support may be lacking...

With LG...I have an app that allows me to immediately research by model and serial numbers...all Technical Service Bulletins...on my "smart" phone.

Wished we had this capability 30 years ago:)

[soulweeper]

8 minutes ago, john63 said:

I'm not familiar with GE software identification numbers (on the board). It *appears* to indicate/show that this board has the original or first software version.

As for the "moisture kit bulletin"...

That does look familiar.

Recently...LG French door refrigerator models were exhibiting the same noise symptoms that you're getting...in addition to unwanted frost accumulation...on the lower left side of the MultiDuct Asst (center panel in fresh food compartment).

LGs fix was to replace the Main Board...with a software re-write in it...that allows the defrost heater to remain energized for 5 additional minutes (more thorough defrosting).

And to replace the MultiDuct Assy...this has an improved seal...to control moisture intrusion near the fam motor.

 

But the only difference is, this is a GE refrigerator. I know you know that, I was just pointing that out.

[soulweeper]

4 minutes ago, john63 said:

I cannot answer the question about whether or not the GE tech ought to know/be aware of service bulletins.

I've never been an authorized servicer for GE.

Their tech support may be lacking...

With LG...I have an app that allows me to immediately research by model and serial numbers...all Technical Service Bulletins...on my "smart" phone.

Wished we had this capability 30 years ago:)

Yeah.....I think part, if not all of the blame, could be on GE, for not telling this guy about the bulletin.

 

In your opinion, reading that bulletin.....where it says "Fresh food evaporator fan motors may be perceived to be loud or exhibit a rattling/vibrating noise"......do you take that as it's normal for the fan to make that type of noise??

 

Also....with the way the moisture is pictured on that fan, in the bulletin, it's pretty obvious to me that the only way to find out if there's moisture build up, is to take that assembly out, correct?

 

I'd say if there's a bulletin out, odds are my fan needs to be swapped out, yes?

[john63]

Yes...greater attention is given...by manufacturers...if a fan motor is noisy due to frost/ice formation on the fan motor blades and/or around the fan housing.

Removing the duct assy to confirm frost/ice accumulation...is not a wasted effort by the tech...but if your model is listed in the service bulletin...that update should be done regardless. It's a notice to all servicers that this is a known problem which requires specific corrective action(s).

[soulweeper]

19 hours ago, john63 said:

Yes...greater attention is given...by manufacturers...if a fan motor is noisy due to frost/ice formation on the fan motor blades and/or around the fan housing.

Removing the duct assy to confirm frost/ice accumulation...is not a wasted effort by the tech...but if your model is listed in the service bulletin...that update should be done regardless. It's a notice to all servicers that this is a known problem which requires specific corrective action(s).

So the tech called today, and said that he talked to GE, and the engineers felt the frost/issue I'm having, is "normal", if it's clearing up every day. That seems to be the consensus, so that's that.

I told him about the bulletin, and he said it's only if you have moisture in the fresh food compartment, and he said there would be moisture at the top, where the air comes out of the vent, into the fresh food section, and he checked when he was here, and there wasn't any. It seems odd that he was suggesting putting the moisture kit in, if he didn't see any moisture, but now he's saying he doesn't have a moisture issue, as there wasn't any??

Do you agree that there would be moisture up near the vent at the top, or do you think is something that has to be visually inspected? Seems to me it is, as the bulletin doesn't mention anything about looking for moisture near the vent, just on the fan.

He originally suggested swapping it out, and today, he got a bit of an attitude, and repeated a couple times "do you want me to replace it or not?" I asked him what his professional opinion was. He said that maybe there is some moisture on the fan, and it's an easy swap, so we should do it.

Do you agree that a person could tell without look at the fan? And it seems to me that if it's got enough of an issue to have a bulletin, that it should definitely be swapped out, yes?

He's coming tomorrow, but curious what your opinion is.

[john63]

I don't know how GE or the authorized servicer do things but...

I always pre-screen calls before arriving at a customer's home.

If a bulletin exists for their specific model...we always perform the update(s) if the appliance is in warranty.

Any LG appliance that is out-of-warranty...full disclosure.

The customer will get an estimate to have the appliance repaired...and a sheet with the LG customer service phone number...model and serial numbers...purchase date...service bulletin number and date...a brief description of the symptom(s) and the actual repair solution.

I instruct the customer to inform LG customer service that they are having the same problem(s) listed in the bulletin (even if this is a total fib). LG may make a concession and cover the cost of the repair.

Sounds like a great strategy...and I wish that I could take full credit for this idea...but it's not mine at all. This comes straight from LG warranty training instructors. These guys are more oriented/concerned about customer service than a minimum wage call taker at "Customer Service".

Bottom line...if there's a bulletin...it ought to be followed.

[soulweeper]

5 minutes ago, john63 said:

I don't know how GE or the authorized servicer do things but...

I always pre-screen calls before arriving at a customer's home.

If a bulletin exists for their specific model...we always perform the update(s) if the appliance is in warranty.

Any LG appliance that is out-of-warranty...full disclosure.

The customer will get an estimate to have the appliance repaired...and a sheet with the LG customer service phone number...model and serial numbers...purchase date...service bulletin number and date...a brief description of the symptom(s) and the actual repair solution.

I instruct the customer to inform LG customer service that they are having the same problem(s) listed in the bulletin (even if this is a total fib). LG may make a concession and cover the cost of the repair.

Sounds like a great strategy...and I wish that I could take full credit for this idea...but it's not mine at all. This comes straight from LG warranty training instructors. These guys are more oriented/concerned about customer service than a minimum wage call taker at "Customer Service".

Bottom line...if there's a bulletin...it ought to be followed.

It seems to me that's how it should be, just like you said.....if it's got a bulletin, fix it. This guy didn't even know about the bulletin, and I don't think GE told him there was one, so I don't know who is more to blame.

I didn't like how the guy was sort of leaving it up to me. I'm not a refrigeration person. I'm the customer, looking at a bulletin that includes my model, end of story.

It seems he should look at it the same way you do.....there's a bulletin, it's under warranty, it's getting dealt with, period.

He's coming in the morning, but he sure seemed to make deal of me deciding if I wanted it or not.

[soulweeper]

Just to add......without being a tech, looking at the bulletin, it seems you have to visually inspect the fan, and not gauge it by whether or not there is moisture near that vent, wouldn't you agree?