GE GNE29GGKWW Refigerator:Question about freezer frost in brand new fridge.

[soulweeper]

1 minute ago, Hiroshi said:

the water dripping off of the evaporator onto the hot element will create some steam... and then the "dwell" period between the defrost and cooling cycle is designed to let the evaporator drip completely ( which is why it is referred to as "drip dwell" sometimes). The vents lead to the evaporator/fan area, so defrost related moisture would be near vents NOT by the doors... moisture and frost by the doors would indicate air intake of some degree.

There is no moisture near the doors, it is all either right on the vent, and the area surrounding the vent, especially the top of the fridge. The vent actually gets moisture to the point where it's actually drops of water, as if it got rained on, if you will. Then when it starts cooling, it obviously freezes some of that moisture, and eventually it evaporates away. If this seems normal, isn't every day a bit excessive?

[Hiroshi]

Yes, I would say it is excessive, but if it is stable, playball. The fact that it is consistent supports my idea of how it is happening- in these newer machines (mine included) I remove all restrictions on the defrost drains that I am able to- in my opinion "duckbills" are B.S. They slow the draining of created defrost water and lead to symptoms like yours (then eventual complete drain failure) ... and warm air cannot go back up the defrost drain unless the doors are open according to the laws of physics. 

I digress, as this is philosophical rambling...

The way the machine does this: 

6 minutes ago, soulweeper said:

it obviously freezes some of that moisture, and eventually it evaporates away.

Is actually a process called "sublimation."

[soulweeper]

12 minutes ago, Hiroshi said:

Yes, I would say it is excessive, but if it is stable, playball. The fact that it is consistent supports my idea of how it is happening- in these newer machines (mine included) I remove all restrictions on the defrost drains that I am able to- in my opinion "duckbills" are B.S. They slow the draining of created defrost water and lead to symptoms like yours (then eventual complete drain failure) ... and warm air cannot go back up the defrost drain unless the doors are open according to the laws of physics. 

I digress, as this is philosophical rambling...

The way the machine does this: 

Is actually a process called "sublimation."

So this might be considered "normal", as john63 was saying?? The store I bought it from is not coming to our house again. Thje guy he sent to install the moisture kit, cracked the evaporator cover, because he pulled the duct tower up out of the cover, rather than removing it, like he was supposed to. It seems this excessive moisture, warm air, started after that, but I'm hyper sensitive to anything, being as this is our third fridge, in a little over a year. The "tech" said "they don't make these for disassembly". This was supposed to be a professional, and couldn't see that the instructions said to remove the cover, which is simply held by 5 screws. I wonder if he damaged the moisture sensor. The store owner offered to buy the fridge back, and the extended warranty, but there isn't one we really want now, and he just doesn't want to deal with it. Pretty lame, but that's the downside to living in a small town.

[Hiroshi]

Yeah, I read the whole post and definitely sympathize... next time remember, "UPGRADE" is a relative term. I have a 1966 refrigerator in my kitchen!

[soulweeper]

Do you think my fridge needs a service call? It shouldn't defrost that often, correct?I think GE can send someone else. I have a good mind to just let the dealer buy it back, since he offered.

[Hiroshi]

If it is bothering you, then, by all means send it back- but depending on usage, a machine with "adaptive defrost" will usually defrost twice a day during warmer months, older units were usually timed to defrost every 8 hours.

I would steer clear of these Samsung heaps (GE sourced out their FDBM's to Samsung), no Kenmore, no LG (sorry John)... look for a single evaporator Whirlpool FDBM. It will operate more like your last fridge (i wager).

 

[soulweeper]

12 minutes ago, Hiroshi said:

If it is bothering you, then, by all means send it back- but depending on usage, a machine with "adaptive defrost" will usually defrost twice a day during warmer months, older units were usually timed to defrost every 8 hours.

I would steer clear of these Samsung heaps (GE sourced out their FDBM's to Samsung), no Kenmore, no LG (sorry John)... look for a single evaporator Whirlpool FDBM. It will operate more like your last fridge (i wager).

 

Well, it's not warm here yet. It's nor freezing cold, but winter is taking it's time going away here. I'm in Northern California. It seems like it does this every morning, and again later in the day/evening.

Are you positive my GE is actually a Samsung? I was told by the store that they're still made right here ion the U.S., after we had two LG's that died. The sad part is, my wife really wanted the LG that we had. It was designed way better than this GE. I'd stil;l want it, if we had someone like john63 in the area, that could actually diagnose and fix it, and think outside the box, if need be.

I would take this guy up on his offer, except there is nothing that we looked at, that we just want to go out and buy. We still liked the LG the best. The Kenmore Elites are just LG, but maybe, just maybe, SEARS could actually fix it if it had an issue.

[Hiroshi]

This thing is very new, there are no images of the main control board to let me know who exactly made it...

[john63]

Looks like GE Main Board.

Image can be seen at appliancepartspros...part number...WR55X26529

[soulweeper]

@john63

What's your opinion about the behavior I described with this fridge? Just curious what you think.

And to add.....now for the second time(that we know of) in about the last week, we've briefly heard what sounds like some fan maybe hitting something, like some ice. Very brief, not like the second LG, which sound like a freakin jackhammer, but still. It shouldn't do that at all.

All that said, either of you correct me if I'm wrong....but if GE sends anyone else, and I think the only other people they can send, is A&E.....can't they simply plug their laptop into this fridge, and see the history, and whether or not it's going into defrost too long, too often, or any other abnormal cycles, etc. etc.? The "tech" from the store I bought it from told me how many times I had opened the door, and said there were no indications that any fans weren't coming on, or defrost cycles were abnormal, etc. etc. But it seems like this behavior is since he was here. I wouldn't be surprised if he screwed something up, removing that duct tower the wrong way.

 

[john63]

My take...

It's damaged and no one wants to take ownership of the problem.

Send it back.

How difficult can it be to replace a MultiDuct Assy?

Answer....easy.

I keep getting mental images of Laurel and Hardy...Keystone Cops...and the 3 stooges (as plumbers).

Edited April 13, 2017 by john63

[soulweeper]

The store owner just doesn't want to deal with any of it, it's obvious. That's why he wants to buy it back. He even offered to reimburse me for the extended warranty that I didn't buy from him.

His driver caused over $2,000 damage to his delivery truck, by stopping said truck with the tree by the curb. We've lived here 20 years, no one else has hit that tree.

His "tech" cracked the evaporator cover, because he couldn't simply remove 5 more screws, to take the cover off, BEFORE removing the duct assembly. Then the guy had the audacity to tell me "they don't make these for disassembly."

I don't have to tell you that removing that duct assembly is easier than legos.

What I most likely will end up doing, is making GE send someone else, because this store owner won't fix it, and won't get me another. Yes, getting a full refund on everything is a good offer, but it's not like my wife wants what is out there.

Went to Sears today, and the girl said she's heard about that knock noise I was telling you about, and that LG is finally acknowledging it. She said they aren't really pushing LG, and don't warranty them, but they warranty Kenmore Elite, which is LG. Go figure. The one brand she said they have the least trouble with, is KitchenAid, but the biggest they have without ice/water on the door, is 25 cubic foot.

Not sure what we're going to do. To consider the Kenmore Elite is almost batshit crazy, as we had two LG's die. But, that fridge is designed well, on that I will agree with my wife. If we bought one from someone that had competent service people, I'd consider taking the risk again. Whether or not our local Sears Hometown Store has competent service people....I just don't know.

[Hiroshi]

On 4/11/2017 at 2:44 PM, Hiroshi said:

look for a single evaporator Whirlpool FDBM

Whirlpool makes Kitchen Aid

[soulweeper]

The one downside with KItchenAid is the fact the biggest fridge they have, that doesn't have the ice/water on the door, is 25 cubic foot.

[soulweeper]

@Hiroshi

Am I correct in assuming that if GE sends a competent tech out from somewhere else, they can plug a laptop into this fridge, and find out everything it's doing, as far as if it's defrosting too long, too frequently.....or anything that isn't as it's supposed to be?

[Hiroshi]

There are downsides to every choice... I prefer to base my choice on reliability of the compressor and sealed system- the rest is fashion.

Durability + Serviceability = Quality

I don't have a laptop or software that can do such a thing... they never make it that easy on us!

[soulweeper]

31 minutes ago, Hiroshi said:

There are downsides to every choice... I prefer to base my choice on reliability of the compressor and sealed system- the rest is fashion.

Durability + Serviceability = Quality

I don't have a laptop or software that can do such a thing... they never make it that easy on us!

The "tech" they sent, checked for updates with his laptop, and told me how many times I'd opened the doors, etc. etc., so that's why I'm thinking if this behavior that I recently described, is abnormal, that a competent tech would be able to easily look that up.

[Hiroshi]

Door switch openings is a statistic used to help determine ADC initiations, but no software I know of can measure moisture on a random surface in the machine- if there was an outright error in defrost duration, there would be an error code... if one of the fans was intermittent that would also illicit a code.

The problem here is that the machine is probably operating inside of it's designed parameters, it may just be a PITA.

[soulweeper]

10 minutes ago, Hiroshi said:

Door switch openings is a statistic used to help determine ADC initiations, but no software I know of can measure moisture on a random surface in the machine- if there was an outright error in defrost duration, there would be an error code... if one of the fans was intermittent that would also illicit a code.

The problem here is that the machine is probably operating inside of it's designed parameters, it may just be a PITA.

Yeah.....that's what I'm hoping someone can determine. It's putting that warm air in the refrigerator section, a couple times a day, and the condensation seems excessive, even though it "clears itself up".

[soulweeper]

@john63

Can I get your honest opinion, since you're an LG guy? Hiroshi doesn't seem to be. We had two die, so I'm not President of the fan club either.

That said.....we're strongly leaning towards taking the store owner up on his buying the GE back, and shaking hands, and walking away. I went to Sears today, and the only thing we really like, that is big enough, with no ice/water on the door, is the Kenmore Elite, which we both know is LG. I know that sounds crazy, after what we went through with the two we had, but I know they're not all bad, and to be fair, no attempt was made to fix the second, and the first was handled by someone that LG insisted on giving a second opinion. Like I've said, we live in a smaller town, in a rural area, so I'll leave it at that.

You're an LG guy, and I'm going to assume you'd be a little biased, but at the same time, you have no stake in this, so what are your thoughts on the new LG fridges, especially the linear compressor models, and also.....do you have any knowledge/insight on this knock noise I was talking about in my other thread? The girl at Sear says she has heard of it, and she said something about it being caused by the two different types of metal the compressor is made of??? Wasn't buying that one, but that's me. She said LG is aware of it, but who knows? It wasn't like she'd never heard of it, that's for sure. She did say a fair amount of them get serviced. I think they just don't make stuff like they used to, but as much as my wife and I liked the design/build quality of the LG we had, I'm ok with having a service call for something fixable, or whatever, as long as a competent person comes out when if/when we have an issue, I just don't want it to die on us.

If we do this, we're getting their best extended warranty, and I feel pretty good about Sears backing it up, as at least it's a big company, and not a small, local shop. I like helping the local guy, but in this case, it didn't go well.

Do you fix a lot of them? You think the repair rate is high,average, or ??

I really appreciate your input, and thanks in advance!

 

[john63]

1. Hiroshi is as Honest As The Day is Long. Nothing that he posted is incorrect. Though we've never met...I consider him one of the sharpest techs on the forum.

2. No additional info/knowledge regarding LG compressor knock (other than a bulletin regarding spacing of refrigerant tubing.

3. Linear compressors are super efficient but lacks the durability that most of us desire in a refrigerator.

4. I have not seen any publication about different metals being used used in compressor manufacturing. It's possible that an LG representative volunteered that info during a visit to her store. Hard to verify.

5. I agree with your decision to return the refrigerator. Although...the Kenmore model is...for all intents and purposes...the same LG as those you've had previously. Still...it does make sense to return the GE and try another refrigerator...even if it is a similar model. 

6. Yes...we service a lot of LGs...but...our market is huge (near Philadelphia). Similarly...Hiroshi is in the Chicagoland market (4th largest population density in the USA)...so his exposure to a multitude of products is extensive as well (experience).

7. Last advice...be very careful about purchasing an extended warranty from Sears. Financially...Sears is a sinking ship. It's anyone's guess whether the retailer will be around in the next 5 years.

8. Good luck:)

[soulweeper]

@john63

Thanks for the reply.

I wasn't saying anything Hiroshi said was incorrect, just that it seemed he didn't have a very high opinion of LG. Trust me, neither do I. We did like the design, and still do, and I'm sure you'd agree that, they can't all be bad. WE have a neighbor across the street that has one, hasn't had a problem. We're skeptical, but we haven't pulled the trigger yet either.

I know that the Kenmore Elite is LG.

It's not etched in stone, quite yet. It's a Kenmore Elite, and it's on sale, and they take another 15% of if you use a Sears card, which I didn't have, but do now. The girl at the store knows our situation, so she encouraged me to take advantage of the sale, as it ends today, and she said I could cancel up to 3 weeks from now, before the credit card bill is due, and she wouldn't even flinch, she'd just put it on the floor, no harm done, and we walk away. This way I get it at probably the best price I'm going to be able to get it at.

Still on the fence about the whole thing, but this GE has an issue, and I have no faith in the store we bought it from, and the owner has offered to give me a full refund, and refund me for the extended warranty that we didn't even buy from him. He wants out too, as one of his employees stopped his delivery truck with our tree, causing over $2000 damage to his truck. Another broke a part, while replacing another, he's brought a loaner two different times.....so yeah, I think it's a nightmare for him too, except some of his is self inflicted.

We're not committed, but locked into a great price if we decide to pull the trigger, and backed by a larger company, which could be beneficial. Ya never know. We tried to help the local guy, but it didn't go well, and with some of the lame excuses I've heard from him, kind of want to cut ties with them, shake hands, and walk away.

 

You think it's stupid to consider LG/Kenmore Elite?

[john63]

I would buy it:)

Like your neighbor...yes there are many LG refrigerators that perform to expectations...for a lot longer than the units you've had.

I am however...an old school guy in a "modern" world...and do miss the pre-1980 compressors that were used in most refrigerators (piston design). Very durable. 

 

[soulweeper]

16 minutes ago, john63 said:

I would buy it:)

Like your neighbor...yes there are many LG refrigerators that perform to expectations...for a lot longer than the units you've had.

I am however...an old school guy in a "modern" world...and do miss the pre-1980 compressors that were used in most refrigerators (piston design). Very durable. 

 

I think we talked about this before, and are essentially from the same generation, haha. When we bought our house, we bought all our appliance from Sears....Kenmore Side by Side Fridge, Kitchenaid Dishwasher and Stove. Got rid of the side by side after 18 years. Still working....my wife just wanted a french door, bottom freezer, enter LG. The fridge was still working when they took it. All we ever did was replace a door handle, and the defrost heater. Dishwasher needed a new pump about a year ago, still working. Oven blew a fuse once, replaced the control board, still working. I'm sure you'll agree they don't make most stuff like they used to. Even our 18 year old washer and dryer were both working when we "upgraded" to these Samsung units. Too many bells, whistles, sensors, etc.etc. More stuff to go wrong.

We know we might be taking a risk by doing this, but at least for the immediate future, which is generally when most issues occur, we have Sears backing it up. And by that, I simply mean that, it's easier for them to simply replace a unit, or whatever. As you know....I have no faith in the little guy in out town. I wish it wasn't that way.

For whatever it's worth, it is a Sear Hometown Store, and it's essentially a spin off of Sears, and I asked the manager if they were in trouble, as it is common knowledge that Sears is, and she said they're independently known, and is being taken over by AAE?? She said they're not going anywhere. Obviously, she's going to say that, even if it wasn't true.....it's her place of employment, so on the extended warranty.....maybe a bit of a crap shoot, who knows?

We still like the design, and to be honest, I believe the store we bought the first LG from, didn't sell enough of them to know them well, and then involving the "second opinion" store, was a joke. When the second one got the ice build up on the fan, and subsequently died, we just wanted it out of the house, and the store made no attempt to try and fix it, they wanted it gone too.

I can handle it being serviced, within reason, if the person is familiar with the machine, and can diagnose/fix the problem. I'd like to think the Sears techs work on a lot of Kenmore Elite models, thus know them.

[soulweeper]

@john63, or @Hiroshi

We ordered the Kenmore Elite from Sears. Call me crazy, but my wife and I both liked the design, and they're not all bad, like you said. Also, I think the store we dealt with, just wasn't up on LG.

Anyway....we know what we "could" be walking into.

On a side note, we plan on getting a smaller fridge for the garage, as a backup, in case something goes wrong, and just to have for storing certain items. That said, the girl mentioned something about "garage ready" fridges, of which there aren't many, but it made me look into it a bit more. I guess in areas where it gets very cold, the freezer can actually turn into a "refrigerator", as it's cold enough for the compressor to not come on, and then the opposite as far as heat, and it can obviously an awful lot, making it hard on the compressor?? Fridgidaire makes a garage kit

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/frigidaire-garage-refrigerator-heater-5303918301-ap3722172.html

that fits certain models, and solve the cold issue, but I wasn't necessarily going to buy Frigidaire.

This Kenmore says it's is designed to function in environments as chilly as 39 degrees. I don't know if that's bull, or it really is. We live a couple hours north of San Francisco. We can get some triple digits in the summer, but it's not Arizona. We can also get freezing temps in the winter, but it's not North Dakota either.

Obviously this is something to maybe consider, but where I'm at, am I overthinking this? I'm sure many people buy a second fridge, and put it in the garage, and never think about it, but she planted the seed. It's insulated, with an insulated roll up door that is still aluminum, and gets air around it it, so it does get pretty darn cold in the winter, and can get hot in the summer. My wife thinks that it never gets below 40 in the garage in the winter, and maybe gets in the 90's in the summer, when it's cooking, and obviously can be harder oin the fridge, but is it a it a huge difference?