Whirlpool Fridge ED25QFXHW01 not cooling

[buddysharp]

Greetings master, this refrig was in the garage for 2 months. 16 years old. Pulled out, hosed out inside (carefully) and plugged in.  Fan and lights started along with freezer side fan but no compressor.  Tripped GFI several times.  Eventually encouraged with hammer and expletives and compressor started.  Freezer was cold and fridge was so-so after several hours. Temperature adjustment worked when adjusted but clearly pulling a few amps when turned on and off.  Left on and went away to meditate (fix fuel pump in truck).  Came back, GFI tripped.  Now,neither fan nor compressor runs.  Lights on, nobody home.  Your assistance and wisdom greatly appreciated on diagnosis steps.  It's destined to hold lots of steaks and beer in the garage.

[Hiroshi]

1. Never run a refrigerator on a GFI outlet. If this is the outlet you intend to use the fridge on, replace it with a normal outlet. ( or goodbye steaks, hello food poisoning!)
2. When the machine won't run, give hard rap with your knuckles next to the Refrigerator temp control knob... did it kick on? Then buy part # 2198202
3. If the cold control is good, check the defrost timer next, it will be in the same control compartment as the cold control and the manual advance knob will be accessible from the bottom- use a flat tip screwdriver to advance the knob and if you hear a solid "click" and the machine springs to life, replace defrost timer part # 2176648

Let us know how this works out...!

 

[buddysharp]

Hi Hiroshi,

No luck with temp control.  It worked fine yesterday, refrig came on after plugging in repeatedly and banging on the compressor, wiggling connections etc.  fan in the rear of the machine was working fine, as well.  when I came back after a few hours, GFI was tripped (this is not the permanent circuit; just temporary) and compressor nor fan was working.  Lights work, defrost control\fan work, ice maker motor works.  

Given that temp control worked fine yesterday, suppose it could have died?  Anything I can do to further diagnose?  

BTW, love the tropical IPA, as well.  

[buddysharp]

Hiroshi, sorry my bad.  the Rear fan came back on after triggering the defrost cycle.  I've dropped the temp control panel to inspect.  No obvious evidence of burnt wires or circuits.  Knob for defrost cycle is broken off for some time thus the need to drop the panel to turn the advance by hand.

[Hiroshi]

Defrost timer. (step 3) the "knob" is not usually a knob anymore per se- but will accept a flat blade screwdriver from the bottom.

Defrost timer can stall out, GFI outlets love to "trip" when an older unit goes into defrost- you can also advance the timer into a defrost cycle and wait the 20 or so minutes for it to advance out under its own power to verify it is working.

If defrost timer is good, I would be checking the start relay, but the condenser fan should be on, just no compressor if that is the case- on rare occassions, a start relay can fragment and still provide intermittent compressor start. For an older garage fridge, adding a URCO410 from Supco instead of the stock relay is not a bad idea. 

  they come with directions! Also, way cheaper than a stock OEM discrete relay kit

Edited February 20, 2017 by Hiroshi

[buddysharp]

Got it.  the defrost timer was loose in the control panel and just moved when I put in the screwdriver - gorilla taping that bugger.

it's in defrost cycle now; waiting for it to time out.  Condensor fan is on now but no compressor so back to where I started yesterday.  I can "encourage" the compressor a bit but want to diagnose the start relay.  I'm betting it's the culprit but want to confirm if you can guide.  And I'll add the URC0410 if the relay is the culprit.

 

[Hiroshi]

Posted the same second you did! If you have fan but no compressor I would slap a URCO 410 on it- they are beneficial to aging compressors too- HVAC guys call them "hard Starts"

Ok, you should have cold beer shortly!

[buddysharp]

hah!  beer is in the main fridge just in case.  OK, compressor came on while I was typing.  I removed the cover in the freezer to see the coils etc. and left door open.  Coils are iced up, compressor is on and warm to the touch.  

[buddysharp]

freezer seems to be freezing but refrig side getting warm air?  is that even possible?  wth?

 

[buddysharp]

Hiroshi, don't give up on me now!!!  

[buddysharp]

ordered the supco, by the way.  Thanks for that tip.  Still weak cooling on the fridge side.  Feeling a bit stupid here.

[Hiroshi]

Sorry, went to lunch!

The fan has to blow the air into the fridge- the cooling will always be weak on that side- it has to run overnight before you can judge the Fridge compartments cooling- especially if it was sitting there warm...

 

[buddysharp]

ahhhh, the warm side makes sense now.  Hope you had a good lunch!  Sorry about the flood of messages; i'm starting at a 12 pack that needs to get cold and it's only 11:20 am on the West Coast!  The supco part will be here Wednesday and I'll slap that baby in.  

[buddysharp]

Hi Hiroshi, Thanks for the help yesterday.  I ordered the Supco part you recommended, but being a grasshoppah, I neglected to ask if that replaces the start relay or supplements the start relay.  Anyway, I pulled the relay\overload off and opened it up. The relay looks a bit brown, although not black.

Where should i order the relay and overload from?  I saw Whirlpool kits on the web but they are $55 bucks.  I'm assuming I only need the relay and not the overload and\or I don't need original Whirlpool parts?  

Your advice, Anjin-san?

[buddysharp]

btw, the relay is 2188504 and the overload is a Klixon 427nfbyy.  I read that Whirlpool superseded the relay with part number 8201799

 

[Hiroshi]

The Supco part will replace the whole mess, but there is two ways to go about installing the URCO... the reason a hard start kit is advisable on this machine is it will help to take the stress off of an aging start winding in the compressor.

 

[buddysharp]

I think I'm following you.  I'm all about giving the old girl a hand in starting...(tempting to make a bad joke here)  So will I remove the relay and overload off of the compressor and give it a proper burial?  And then mount the URCO420 somewhere in the cabinet near the compressor and plug it directly to the compressor?

 

[Hiroshi]

There are two ways to install a URCO, but I would just stick with the instructions to avoid the confusion... When installing them for customers I would leave the overload part of the original relay in place, this requires altering the URCO wiring scheme and ups the difficulty level of installation for someone that hasn't done 150 of them already!

[buddysharp]

Gotcha.  I've read all the horror stories about the overload in the Supco unit not protecting the compressor in hard starts.  I'm happy to take the plunge at keeping it in place.  Seems straightforward to clip in the overload using the old device cover but remove the old relay and then connect the wire from the 3 n 1.  I've only got a two wire connection (no capacitor on my unit (Whirlpool ED25QFXHw01) which btw is 16 yrs old.

I'd hate to come home to defrosted steaks and warm beer in the garage. 

Quote

 

 

[buddysharp]

but this would require some guidance from you on suggestions after 150 bazillion installs.

[Hiroshi]

Do you have a meter?

1. There are three black wires on the URCO. One has a compressor pin terminal, the other two are just stripped ends.
2. Using the continuity setting on your meter, identify which stripped wire is continuous with the black wire with the terminal on it...
3. I cut those two off, but you could easily just tape them out of the way as well.
4. Press the factory thermal overload onto the compressor pin that is the "common" (use the directions on the URCO to identify the "start" "run" and "common" pins)
5. The overload will fit tightly on the pin and shouldn't need more securing, but plastic zip-ties work well 
6. Leave the connector/terminal on the colored wire of the two that were attached to the original overload and start device
7. Use one of the wire-nuts included in the URCO to attach the remaining Black stripped-end wire of the URCO left after STEP 3 to the white wire that was attached to the original start device (after stripping it)
8. Use the directions on the URCO to attach the RED (run)  and WHITE (start) wires of the URCO to their corresponding compressor pins.
9. Turn the Fridge controls to "off," then plug in the machine. Turn the controls back to "on," and the Fridge should fire-up. 

[buddysharp]

I separated the thermal overload from the start relay but for some reason, I couldn't get it pressed by on to the pin.  Partly because the freon pipes make it really hard to get in there but it seemed like the plastic tabs on the overload were in the way and I didn't want to break them off ( i know that makes no sense)  So I have up and wired the URCO per the instructions.  I initially couldn't get it to re-start and it immediately kicked the breaker.  I pulled off the wires and re-did it, and no start.  I advanced the defrost timer and it fired up fine and is cooling now.  waiting to see if it continues.  Seems like there is something else going on here.  Should I do some sort of continuity test on the compressor with my meter?

[Hiroshi]

If the machine is kicking the breaker in defrost, you may have a grounded element or the defrost bi-metal is roasting it's innards...

You can test the compressor by checking each pin for continuity to the compressor's metal casing, then switch to Ohm's resistance and check each set of two pins: two of the readings should add up to the third reading.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Hiroshi

[buddysharp]

gotcha!  looks like I had two connectors touching each other.  removed, checked my connections and fridge is humming along like a charm.  cold beer in the garage tonight, courtesy of Hiroshi and Supco!

[Hiroshi]

nice work! cheers!