LG WM2487HRM control board interchange

[Ted B.]

Hello

 

it's my first time - please be gentle...

LG tromm front load washers - I have 2 WM2487HRM and a WM2455HG
Both (I think) need control boards

Trying to find a way to see which control boards interchange with regard to series revisions / newer / older.

example: LG WM2487HRM (R=red color) has a PCB# 6870EC9240B
found same model washer WM2487H*M with PCB# 6871ER1062G

will this (apparently newer revision) interchange?

Also I believe I burned them out by operating them in service / continuous tumble wash mode for too long.

In each case I forgot I left it on, left house for 30 minutes, came home, smelled strong burning smell, machine comepletely dead.  (DEAD dead.)
Don't think it was bearing failure.  Bearings still seem fine, tubs have no play, no noise.

In both cases the control board and outer plastic box was HOT (I'm open to installing a small cooling fan - there are some large heatsinks on these boards and they get almost zero air circulation - and cooling has got to be hampered by the plastic coating on those boards)

I tried replacing the fuse in control board of the WM2487HRM (with a slightly larger value than original -it was an odd rating, did not have exact fuse, me impatient).  It was much fun cutting the old fuse out of the plastic sealant I must say.  Result was smoke / burning smell.  *without even turning the unit on*   Immediately unplugged.

Observation:  when bad control board was left in place in each machine, the drum was hard-ish to turn.  Some kind of resistance - felt like it was connected to clay - did not spin freely as normal with machine off.  It did not matter if machine was plugged in or not.    Once the control board was removed, the drum spun freely and easily.  Is this some kind of electronic brake / failsafe which somehow operates even with the unit off and unplugged?  (like regenerative braking)

Additional notes: 

I had manually readjusted the water fill on both for much higher water level - so that is rises to above the bottom of the rubber door seal.  It seems that these machines work FANTASTIC this way, plus it pretty much eliminates the mold issue as plenty of wash water gets run through the rubber seal and it's drain holes. 

I'm wondering if the additional water somehow causes more load on the motor under normal operation (although I can't imagine that it would).

Also,  I have wondered  if the additional water might somehow cause or accelerate bearing issues - especially with 10 year old machines which might have weak-ish seals...

Also I have previously replaced the drain pumps and drain hoses in both (the hoses split suddenly after 10 years, o-ring seal on the pumps start to leak).

Little help please with the control board interchange issue?  :-)

Also, any other constructive suggestions / experience / things to watch out for on the large LG tromm front load series also appreciated.  I REALLY like this design and want to make these work.  They seem to be engineered pretty darn well (except for the cheap plastic dishwasher drain hose...)

Thanks muchly.

[john63]

Serial numbers of both washers?

[john63]

3 hours ago, Ted B. said:

Also I believe I burned them out by operating them in service / continuous tumble wash mode for too long.

In each case I forgot I left it on, left house for 30 minutes, came home, smelled strong burning smell, machine comepletely dead.  (DEAD dead.)
 

 

What is the rationale behind using the washer in this manner?

[Ted B.]

Hi John.

Both good questions.

1.)

The control boards I am finding are on amazon and ebay and the serial numbers are unknown to me for the replacements.

The machine model/ serial/ control board#s for the 2 different machines I already own are:

WM2487HRM (model) --- 611KWRE02430 (serial) --- 6870EC9240B  (DISCOVERY : USA) - 060828 LYW - (A: YES) - 6871ER1062G (ALL#s on control board)

WM2455HG    (model) --- 705KWHX01025 (serial) --- EAX32220502  ( NEO - PJT) -           -  070228  HDS - (A: YES) - (ALL#s on control board)

 

2.)

Because I like the way the machines clean with more water and more aggressive agitation.

When I use the machines in full manual mode:  it takes dramatically less time to get a load done instead of all this BS of machine pausing during filling,pausing every 3 seconds during tumble wash, 'oversuds' time-outs, etc.  I usually don't have 2 hours 8 minutes to get a single load of wash done.  (I'd LOVE to be able to enter my own cycle programming parameters).

So I usually

*fill the machine to max water level manually (cold or hot)

*run manual continuous tumble wash cycle for XX minutes

*manual drain

*refill, rinse (another manual tumble cycle, less minutes)

*manual drian

*manual spin

I can get a load done and CLEAN in 45 mins / hour.

 

I use the grey machine for really dirty items like rags, or sometimes to soak things so as to not 'contaminate the 'nice' red machine for my normal regular clothes .

I use the red machine with its sanitary cycle to sometimes pause and soak things in extremely hot water for periods of time.

 

In short, I like having more control over the cycles, the cleaning and the time it takes to get a load of wash done with out stupid a*s waiting and wasting of time.

it irritates me the the motor power supply and its cooling are perhaps underdesigned and that they cannot handle providing power without overheating for continuous duty cycles.  i am guessing this is a big reason why the machine has to continually pause, especially in wash tumble cycles - so as to give the control board power supply output transistors a chance to cool.

I still think a small powerful fan to cool the control board would be a good idea.

[john63]

Main Board part numbers...

WM2487HRM  (6871ER1062G)

WM2455HG  (EBR32268002)

Will post more info about these washers later...

[john63]

Okay.

Let's start with the common complaints that customers have expressed over the years...regarding LG front load washers.

1. The clothing is *not* getting clean...like my previous cheapo top load washer

2. The washer always has a musty odor.

3. I never use any of the cycles...except Speed Wash. Because the Cycle Time Displayed...never matches actual cycle run time. It's always much longer than the time shown.

4. Every once in awhile...the washer leaks water from either the back or underneath.

5. The rubber door gasket has hideous black mold stains on it...and I cannot remove it.

6. Occassionally...the washer will show an error of "LE"...and shutdown...clothing will be soaking wet.

7. I use Hypo Allergenic detergent...and we *still* get skin rash. It doesn't rinse the fabrics very well at all. I hate this washer.

Edited August 13, 2017 by john63

[john63]

All of these complaints/symptoms have a single root cause...detergent.

To eliminate each and every one those "defects"...

Use only "he" (low suds) detergent.

These are generally sold in three concentrations...regular strength...2X double concentrated...3X triple concentrated.

Some mail order or eco-brands are even more concentrated (potent)...like 6X.

Normally following the directions on a product is a wise thing to do.

This is an exception.

Correct dosage (regardless of laundry load size in the tub/drum)...

HE: (2) Tablespoons per wash

HE 2X: (1) Tablespoon 

HE 3X: (1) Teaspoon

NOTE:

If washing heavily soiled laundry...rather than adding additional detergent to the Main Wash compartment in detergent drawer...select the PRE WASH option...and then add the same dosage detergent to the Pre Wash compartment of the dispenser. Most but not all model LG washers have a Pre Wash option.

The key advantage to using Pre Wash is that...when the Pre Wash part of the cycle ends...the washer will re-measure the weight of the laundry in the drum...which is now wet...and this will result in a maximum water fill to begin the Main Wash cycle (helps to clean dirtier or bulkier loads).

All LG front load washers begin the cycle by measuring the dry weight of laundry in the drum.

Then...in a staggered fashion...the water valves will open and close...allowing *some* water to enter the washer...getting the clothing partly wet.

This is again measured.

At this point the washer "computer' algorithem has calculated the weight and will begin normal water fill until done.

LG front load washers...like most other brands...are ultra efficient in determining the absolute minimum of water (quantity/amount)...needed to consistently and reliably clean laundry...by weight. Again and again again.

This however...is contingent on using the correct type and amount of detergent.

Using the incorrect type/amount...totally ruins/disrupts the ability of the washer to function/perform as intended.

All wash water must remain in a *liquid* state.

Suds is not liquid. 

Suds will not "follow" the dirty wash water out of the washer during drain.

If 20 pounds of laundry needs X amount of water...to clean effectively...that quantity of water must remain constant.

Excessive suds will also trigger or activate a "sleeping" software program called:  "Suds Kill".

When Suds Kill is enabled...the Control Panel clock will be stalled until the Suds Kill program has ended.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by john63

[john63]

If your home has a Whole House Water Softener System...

Then dosage changes...

HE: (1) Tablespoon per wash

HE 2X: (1) Teaspoon

HE 3X : Not recommended

NOTE:

Recently introduced "he" GelPack or Tablet detergent...may be too potent for use in the washer...in homes with a water softener system.

Discontinue use.

[john63]

There are still other unique features or things to know (as a tech) about the LG front load washer...

I wanted to keep it simple and specific to your particular user habits...rather than ramble on all night:)

Good luck.

[Ted B.]

Hi.

First - THANK YOU very much for the information about the control board numbers!

I was apparently using incorrect numbers from the PCB and have now found the ones I need on ebay.

Is there still a chance that this kind of failure can be caused by the electrical noise choke PCB?

Detergents:  GAH!    Yes.  Yes,.  Please know that I have read up extensively about detergents and done much experimenting over the past year with my new-to-me 10 year old LG machines.

For me, the best results are consistently achieved (once machine is properly cleaned) by using *much* more water. 

Further, I had taken to removing the detergent cups altogether from the detergent tray - and then drilled holes in the tray decks to allow water to completely drain from them after each use.  A BIG part of the mold problem I found is that water is perpetually held in those cups.  That is absolutely not acceptable to me. 

I do not live in the desert so using a little more  water is a non-issue for me.  Even when adjusted to fill fairly high, the front loaders use far less water than any top loader.  I simply do not subscribe to the 'less water is better' school.  I believe that using more water also washes the detergent residues from the rear basket and spider and seems to prevent detergent build up.  

Theory:  Perhaps these machines were originally conceived to mimic the operation of commercial front loaders which use a fair amount of water.   Maybe later in the design process, the idea of using less water became a priority.  That would explain (at least to me) a lot of the mold, detergent and corrosion issues.    Don't get me wrong - I am a big defender of the environment and I have a strong interest in energy efficiency - but it seems a false economy for the machine to suffer these major issues (shortened lifespan, necessity of using expensive detergent, long wash cycles, clothes not getting clean enough)  in exchange for using a little less water.    For me, appliances need to be reliable and dependable first, do their intended job well second, and then energy efficiency and water consumption come last.    I do at least 2 loads of wash every day - so these machines get a lot of use.. 

I also have the benefit of some unusual experience .  In 1996 I worked at a 97% water recycling laundromat (highly experimental) in Provincetown, MA.  The clothes (theoretically) were supposed to get clean though intense water ozonation.  We had a fairly large, sophisticated custom engineered water purification plant in the back of the laundromat.  The water was filtered, ozone was added, UV sterilization treatment, partial distillation and then water was cooled.  We had a heck of a time getting people not to add detergent to the wash (per the design of the system) but the fact was that ozonated water simply did not clean clothes (O3 will not remove grease, oil, sweat - the usual suspects)  and was not a substitute for good old fashioned  detergent (and bleach).  It also faded the hell out of darks.  An added bonus was that the ozonated water ate up and destroyed the laundry equipment very quickly.  Top loader tub seals began leaking within a few months.    So I learned a lot.

While I sincerely appreciate the time and attention given to the topic of detergent, I am more focused on keeping these machines running correctly mechanically and electrically and maybe doing some mods to improve their performance, reliability and lifespan.

So - along those lines - Does anyone know of any mechanical or electrical weak points in these machines? (other than operator error to which I plead Guilty as charged!)

Lastly, any idea what a minimum / maximum lifespan is for the drum spider?  (due to corrosion).  I get that this is variable depending on water/detergent/bleach) - but has anyone noticed a range or bell curve when they seem to go?

Thank you so much!  :-)

[Ted B.]

Also - another question - it looks like these machines have additional shock absorber mounting points designed in and molded into the housings which are not being used. 

Has anyone added extra shocks to these units to increase control over tub movement with heavy loads / lessen overall stress on the shocks overall?

I've had a couple of small frigidaire / electrolux front loaders that actually had their shocks weaken, snap and disconnect.   While I think the LG machines are better designed, I really don't want that to ever happen.  I'm also a fan of overdesigning / overbuilding.

Tom & Ray (from NPRs 'car talk' program) once talked about how they worked with a fellow auto technician whom they nicknamed Tony "Heavy Duty" - because every time he would replace a part or do an overhaul he would insist on using heavy duty replacement parts.    I get that guy...  completely... 

 

I hate things that break.

[john63]

8 hours ago, Ted B. said:

I also have the benefit of some unusual experience .  In 1996 I worked at a 97% water recycling laundromat (highly experimental) in Provincetown, MA.  The clothes (theoretically) were supposed to get clean though intense water ozonation.  We had a fairly large, sophisticated custom engineered water purification plant in the back of the laundromat.  The water was filtered, ozone was added, UV sterilization treatment, partial distillation and then water was cooled.  We had a heck of a time getting people not to add detergent to the wash (per the design of the system) but the fact was that ozonated water simply did not clean clothes (O3 will not remove grease, oil, sweat - the usual suspects)  and was not a substitute for good old fashioned  detergent (and bleach).  It also faded the hell out of darks.  An added bonus was that the ozonated water ate up and destroyed the laundry equipment very quickly.  Top loader tub seals began leaking within a few months.    So I learned a lot.

 

Very interesting!

[john63]

9 hours ago, Ted B. said:

   Don't get me wrong - I am a big defender of the environment and I have a strong interest in energy efficiency - but it seems a false economy for the machine to suffer these major issues (shortened lifespan, necessity of using expensive detergent, long wash cycles, clothes not getting clean enough)  in exchange for using a little less water.    For me, appliances need to be reliable and dependable first, do their intended job well second, and then energy efficiency and water consumption come last.    

 

Both of us think alike:)

However...those dosage instructions that I posted...resolve *all* of your concerns.

Even though "he" detergent is more expensive than non-"he" detergent...this is offset by using the *correct* amount.

None of that has anything to do with reducing waste or lowering environmental impact.

The real reason for those dosage instructions has to do with *marketshare* (i.e., profit).

During the early part of the 2000s...when LG recently entered the North American market...LG corporate's number one goal was to steal marketshare from competitors.

During one of the consumer surveys done in those early days...LG had asked consumers that owned a competitor's front load washer....if they would consider purchasing an LG next time around. Many variables were explained...to entice those potential consumers. Such as larger tub...more features and options...price...appearance/beauty etc etc.

LG was shocked at the number of responses along the lines of: "I am never getting another front load washer...ever again...regardless of manufacturer".

Needless to say...that sent a chill up someone's spine at LG.

If this becomes a common reaction...to the then fledgling/booming market for front loading washers...LGs marketshare goals might be a fools errand.

This set in motion...strong and unrelenting training...explaining why detergent dosage is so critical to washing/cleaning performance.

Got to take care of a few errands...will try to answer all of your other questions tonight:)

John

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by john63

[john63]

By the way...

My wife lived in Falmouth, MA for a few years...worked at the Carpet Barn...and Air Force (Otis AFB).

She took me there and introduced me to family and friends still living there (about 1991).

Went to P-Town too (a mecca for artist community).

Edited August 13, 2017 by john63

[Ted B.]

I believe that manufacturers can build machines to a higher standard.  (We've done it before...)

1969 Lady Kenmore combination front loading washer dryer.

 

 

[john63]

Serviced 3 of these many moons ago.

Heavy duty indeed.

Atrocious design...for service.

Small tub.

The problem of building quality...is not that it cannot be done.

It is due to federal regulations changing so often.

Any resources dedicated by a manufacturer...to the goal of building a  quality/truly durable appliance...will be completely squandered/wasted...when the next set of regulations roll out.

The primary goal of the manufacturers is....by necessity.....*compliance*.

 

 

[john63]

21 hours ago, Ted B. said:

 I am more focused on keeping these machines running correctly mechanically and electrically and maybe doing some mods to improve their performance, reliability and lifespan.

So - along those lines - Does anyone know of any mechanical or electrical weak points in these machines? (other than operator error to which I plead Guilty as charged!)

 

Pre-2010 washers had weak Hall Effect Sensors (Rotor Position Sensor).

Using the incorrect detergent or too much of the correct detergent...causes higher than intended electrical load on the Hall Sensor (resistor).

Note: Manipulating the water level sensor...adds additional weight to the tub...which in turn causes overheating of the Hall Sensor...and very likely causes a normally sleeping/dormant software program called "Suds Kill"...to wake-up/become enabled.

This is a program that will stall the countdown clock/display...usually at 38 or 36 minutes remaining...until the Suds Kill actions have been completed (about 1/2 hour).

Failure of the Hall Sensor tends to occur after a number "LE" errors/interrupted cycles.

All Hall Sensors built in the last quarter of 2009 and newer...have larger resistors...failure is now rare.

The Motor Wire Harness...should be replaced every 5 years...due to the wiring failing (caused by bending/flexing).

 

Electrolux/Frigidaire front load washer tub supports and dampers...fail/break often.  Almost unheard of on LG washers.

The extra damper mounts on the base of some LG washers...is a cost saving feature which allows using the same base for several different model washers (different tub sizes).

There are no additional *tub* mounts anyway...to permit adding extra dampers/struts. And none are needed.

All LG front load washers built 2010 and newer...have a software capability to balance spin cycles at speeds above 400 rpm.

Older models work best on concrete flooring.

Inner Drum and Tub Bearings a have reasonably good track record 2007 and older. All 2008 and newer models received upgraded bearings and shaft...among many other refinements over the years.

Some of our clients/customers use their LG front load washer...8 loads per *day* (animal hospitals/beauty salons etc)

A typical family of 4 will do a minimum of 8 loads of laundry per *week*.

I cannot possibly overstate the importance of using the correct type and amount of detergent...in an LG washer...to get the desired cleaning results...normal/correct cycle run times...reduction in odor issues...including mold on the door gasket and inside the detergent dispenser housing...leaks on the floor...dingy/yellowing of white fabrics...skin irritation..."LE" errors...

My recommendation is to replace both Main Boards and both Water Level Sensors.

Switch to detergent pods (unless you have a water softener)...rather than replace the Detergent Dispenser Drawers.

The LG washer performs as expected and desired...without any modification at all...provided that the correct detergent and amount is used.

And that's the Heavy Duty truth:)