Kenmore Dishwasher Final Pump Out Fails

[Jimbo.2]

Oh Most Exalted One,

I humbly request the honor of a few pearls of wisdom from your vast repository of knowledge on all things appliance related. The item at hand is a Kenmore (GE) dishwasher Model No. 363.1404598.

A quick note on the model number, whenever I have tried to order parts for this dishwasher from the part site you recommend, the site’s search engine claims it can’t find this model number. I am certain the model number is correct. I located the number using the diagrams you provided. I used both a flashlight and a divining rod while reading the number. The number has “model number” written before it and I have double checked the number to ensure I wrote it correctly.

Whenever the dishwasher completes a cycle it leaves the tub completely full of clean water. When the timer knob is turned slowly through by hand, I can hear the washer pumping out the water prior to the rinse part of the cycle. I have successfully drained the tub by manually pushing the lever moved by the drain solenoid down by hand. Whenever I do this the pump out is complete and quick, so the pump and drain hose are fine. I’ve concluded the problem is likely the timer. Do you agree, or do you have another idea? Also, any idea why this model number is not recognized?

Thanks, Jim.

[Pegi]

You might be correct the timer is not giving power to the drain coil, check this with your volt meter to see if you are getting voltage to the coil when it should be draining. The Kenmore model numbers are for a private label and are made by others so likely will not be found...will need to go to the Sears online site to find the model number and get the part number then put it into the parts look-up box...

[Pegi]

Well, perhaps not, Sears says they have no info on that model number, how old is this unit??

We could not find the information you requested. Our online database does not contain any information on model: DISHWASHER - 3631404598

If you know the part number, try locating the part using the part number search feature located on the upper left corner of this page.

If you need assistance in locating your product information, then

[Mad Mac]

363.1404597 comes up.....GE part number for the timer is WD21X776, appears to be the same timer in models ending in 593 through 597.

 

 

[Jimbo.2]

Thanks Pegi and Mad Mac,

I watched the drain solenoid while I cycled the timer through by hand. The solenoid appears to be opening and closing properly throughout the cycle, so I know it functions and is getting voltage, it just doesn’t open at the end of the rinse cycle. The corrected model number and the part number were also especially helpful and a new timer is on order. Only one gripe, the cost of the timer ($80.00) is a lot of beer money to waste on clean dishes!

Thanks, Jim

[Mad Mac]

And I don't even do dishwashers....

[Jimbo.2]

OK, I replaced the timer, but I still have the same problem – standing water in the basin after the final pump out. I can hear the washer pumping out at other points in the cycle and the water left in the basin is clean. Are the pump outs, with the exception of the final pump out, timed? If so, does the final pump out have a different starting and ending criteria? Is there a different mechanism used for the pump outs which occur during the cycle and than the one at the end?

Help! Jim

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=3947]Jimbo.2[/user] wrote:

just doesn’t open at the end of the rinse cycle.

Jim, return the timer for a refund. Then, break out your meter and measure the voltage on the drain solenoid, especially at the end of the rinse cycle, when it should open but doesn't. Visual indications of the solenoid's action are not conclusive proof that it is getting the right voltage at the right time or that it's responding correctly to that voltage. Measure, measure, measure.

[Jimbo.2]

OK,

I turned the timer to the beginning of the “Rinse and Hold” part of the cycle and took measurements from there. I haven’t heard the washer drain just prior to “Rinse and Hold” so I assume there is normally waste water standing in the basin at that point. Therefore, I made sure there was standing water in the basin at the beginning of the “Rinse and Hold” cycle during the test.

At the beginning of the “Rinse and Hold” cycle, the voltage to the drain solenoid was less than one volt and the solenoid was closed. The voltage then jumped to 110 volts opening the solenoid and remained there briefly (I didn’t time it). The voltage then dropped back to less than one volt and the solenoid closed. At this point I peeked inside and the basin was full of water. Shortly after closing the washer I heard it filling with water through the supply.

The sequence above repeated itself two more times before the end of cycle. The last time, however, the washer did not fill with fresh water through the supply. Rather, than filling with water, the washer shut off as, I assume, it entered the “Dry” part of its cycle. When I looked inside the basin was full of water. Also, in case its important, the mechanical timer’s knob was just shy of the “Dry” portion of the cycle.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Sounds to me like you have a problem with the pump impeller or drain flapper.

With the tub full of water and when the motor is running, (the motor runs in only one direction-same direction for wash and drain), if you give momentary power to the solenoid or just pull it down by hand for just a few seconds if all is working correctly you should be able to let go of the drain solenoid plunger or release power and the drain flap will be held open by the force of the water against the drain flap, the pressure of the water against the flapper should hold it sealed against the spray tower outlet and all water will go out drain.

When the solenoid plunger is pulled down as far as it will go the drain flap is not all the way closed, you should notice that the arm on the drain flap will touch the other plate with the spring on it attached to the solenoid coil. The water pressure should close the flapper the rest of the way and overcome this other spring.

If the seal on the flapper inside the pump is bad the water pressure can't seal the flapper against the spray tower outlet and the drain flap will close off the drain port as soon as the drain solenoid is turned off and just keep on washing instead of draining all the way. The solenoid shouldn't have power to it for the complete drain cycle, just for a minute, (I believe at most), otherwise you can overheat and melt the solenoid coil.

Another thing that can cause not enough pressure to close the flapper tight against the spray tower outlet is a wash impeller that has been damaged causing the pump to not create enough pressure, (I haven't seen this happen very often on these).

Do you have the soil collection chamber with the piston/valve assembly in the back of the dishwasher, all the model#'s around yours - I can't get a parts list of your actual model - don't have it?

[Jimbo.2]

First of all thanks for your help Willie. Sorry my reply took so long, I’ve been rather busy. OK, to answer your question there is no soil collection chamber with the piston/valve assembly in the back of the dishwasher. This model has a plastic sump cover which leads straight into a boot that then leads straight to the grater. The impeller has some nicks and wear, as does the flapper. Also the grater had a lot of debris on it and the spring cutter was broken. Given had hard it is to get to all these parts I was going to replace all three of then: impeller, flapper valve and spring cutter. Actually, given how the flapper is mounted in there, I imagine it would be easiest just to replace the entire assembly.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Yes, if you have a problem with drain flap inside the pump body you would be best off just replacing the complete Moter/Pump assembly as a complete unit.

Lots of repair guys won't even go into these pumps to replace seals they only replace as a complete unit.