Kenmore Elite 795.71053.010 aka 79571053010 won't cool

[wheelhouse]

Hi, My fridge is not cooling. Condenser coils pretty clean.

Evap fan, condenser fan both working fine. I can hear the compressor running and the high side line gets warm but not hot.

Suction line pressure measures at ~60 psi (I carefully installed a bullet piercing valve because I thought r134a level might be low).

I might have a restriction in the refrigerant pathways? Not sure if this is a TXV unit or capillary tube. 

Model number is: 79571053010 (Kenmore Elite, appears to be made by LG)

Thanks for any help you can provide!

[AccApp]

5 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

Hi, My fridge is not cooling. Condenser coils pretty clean.

Evap fan, condenser fan both working fine. I can hear the compressor running and the high side line gets warm but not hot.

Suction line pressure measures at ~60 psi (I carefully installed a bullet piercing valve because I thought r134a level might be low).

I might have a restriction in the refrigerant pathways? Not sure if this is a TXV unit or capillary tube. 

Model number is: 79571053010 (Kenmore Elite, appears to be made by LG)

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Sounds like you know enough to be dangerous but not enough to fix it. Yet.

Send us a pic of where you put the bullet valve, please.

60 psi sounds waaaaaaay too high for a low side. Any chance you can get a high side pressure?

It's a capillary tube.

[wheelhouse]

Hi, thanks for the response.

Is the only way to attach a picture to use a link to a URL or can I attach it in a more traditional way like one would attach to an email? I didn't see that option anywhere.

 

The only way I could get a high side pressure would be to order and install another bullet piercing valve on the high side line which if needed I could do, I definitely think the low side suction line pressures are pretty high.

A few questions:

1) In your opinion, what are the chances of me having a restriction based on the information I've given so far?

2) Obviously I hope it is not something as complicated as a restriction in the refrigerant pathways, but in case it is, are repairs for that usually expensive and what do the repairs usually entail, a condenser coil flush or replacement and an evaporator coil flush or replacement?

3) What causes and where are the restrictions often located, capillary tube or in the evap or condenser coils? (Obviously I do understand that I may not have a restriction at all and it may be something else)..

 

4) What are the approximate resting 134a pressures for a completely cool and unplugged refrigerator system that has sat for 3 or 4 days. (For example in an automotive a/c circuit, the resting pressures are usually fairly close to ambient temperature in Fahrenheit)

Thanks again

[Gary watts]

when you shut it off does pressure change ?

[wheelhouse]

2 hours ago, Gary watts said:

when you shut it off does pressure change ?

When the fridge is unplugged and has sat for a while (as it has all day today), the low side pressure goes up slightly - to about 65 psi. What are typical system-off pressures for a functioning, but not-in-use fridge (like if you measured the high and low sides of the fridges at Best Buy or Sears)?

When the unit is running the low side pressure will drop slightly (indicating some suction I assume), but the lowest I've seen it drop to is approx 50psi (this was observed during my initial attempts to charge the unit with 134a thinking I was low on freon).

Thoughts?

Thanks for any help you all can provide

[AccApp]

10 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

 

A few questions:

1) In your opinion, what are the chances of me having a restriction based on the information I've given so far?

2) Obviously I hope it is not something as complicated as a restriction in the refrigerant pathways, but in case it is, are repairs for that usually expensive and what do the repairs usually entail, a condenser coil flush or replacement and an evaporator coil flush or replacement?

3) What causes and where are the restrictions often located, capillary tube or in the evap or condenser coils? (Obviously I do understand that I may not have a restriction at all and it may be something else)..

4) What are the approximate resting 134a pressures for a completely cool and unplugged refrigerator system that has sat for 3 or 4 days. (For example in an automotive a/c circuit, the resting pressures are usually fairly close to ambient temperature in Fahrenheit)

1) With 60 psi low side? 0 - 0.5% .

2) Let's not even get into that yet.

3) see answer for 2

4) roughly ambient temp in degrees fahrenheit

[AccApp]

2 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

(like if you measured the high and low sides of the fridges at Best Buy or Sears)?

Last time I tried that I was escorted from the premises and asked not to return

[AccApp]

2 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

When the fridge is unplugged and has sat for a while (as it has all day today), the low side pressure goes up slightly - to about 65 psi. What are typical system-off pressures for a functioning, but not-in-use fridge (like if you measured the high and low sides of the fridges at Best Buy or Sears)?

When the unit is running the low side pressure will drop slightly (indicating some suction I assume), but the lowest I've seen it drop to is approx 50psi (this was observed during my initial attempts to charge the unit with 134a thinking I was low on freon).

Thoughts?

Thanks for any help you all can provide

Without knowing the high side pressure I'm guessing you have a faulty compressor.

If the compressor was functioning and there was a restriction in the system I would expect the low side to be in a vacuum and the high side to be way too high.

[wheelhouse]

43 minutes ago, AccApp said:

Without knowing the high side pressure I'm guessing you have a faulty compressor.

If the compressor was functioning and there was a restriction in the system I would expect the low side to be in a vacuum and the high side to be way too high.

The compressor sounds and feels like it's running, so if the compressor is shot then it has internally failed so as to still spin, but not generate pressure?

I assume an ohm test of the 3 compressor terminals pins would likely pass without issue?

If I order another bullet piercing valve just for the high side then would we be able to determine more? I also own a vacuum pump and manifold gauge set by the way. 

What are my next steps to firmly get to the root cause?

 

[Gary watts]

did you check your amp draw

[wheelhouse]

Oh, and regarding my question about how to post pics? 

[wheelhouse]

4 minutes ago, Gary watts said:

did you check your amp draw

Not yet, I don't have a good working amp clamp, I could pick one up tomorrow if needed, unless there is a way for me to check with the two multimeter leads.

[AccApp]

1 hour ago, wheelhouse said:

Oh, and regarding my question about how to post pics? 

 

[AccApp]

I wouldn't bother with another bullet valve. I use one of these when I recover refrigerant:

https://www.zoro.com/imperial-refrigerant-recovery-tool-pt-109/i/G4997167/feature-product?gclid=CjwKCAjwhOvPBRBxEiwAx2nhLrgks9fE6erbJcayC1MUA-9P_1uBxdiHzuNY-N4qrRfG82mMQ5jK1RoC60UQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

because I am such an Imperial Tool fanboy. But if this is your only foray into the household refrigeration game you could use a bullet valve.

[AccApp]

But, yeah. Low side pressure is just a small piece of the whole picture.

[AccApp]

1 hour ago, wheelhouse said:

The compressor sounds and feels like it's running, so if the compressor is shot then it has internally failed so as to still spin, but not generate pressure?

I assume an ohm test of the 3 compressor terminals pins would likely pass without issue?

If I order another bullet piercing valve just for the high side then would we be able to determine more?

Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding! You have successfully completed the lightning round by asking three questions in a row with "yes" answers

 

1 hour ago, wheelhouse said:

I also own a vacuum pump and manifold gauge set by the way. 

OMG! Why? Do you have access to brazing equipment as well?

 

2 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

What are my next steps to firmly get to the root cause?

High side pressure. Discharge and suction line temperatures optional.

 

I apologize if I sound flippant. It's kinda my thing.

 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

I don't do sealed system work but everything sure sounds like it points to a bad compressor and this being a LG, (I suspected a failed Linear Compressor), so I looked it up before posting.

This is one with a Linear Compressor and I would be willing to bet that is the problem - I'm really surprised no one else has already pointed in that direction.

You need to look up your warranty on this, (the sealed system may have a 5th-10th year warranty on sealed system parts only or if you're lucky parts and labor).   It looks like from the diagram lookup this was built sometime in 2010.

Your compressor  Part number: TCA34649901

 

 

[wheelhouse]

14 hours ago, AccApp said:

 

I read the entire thread about posting pics, it must be because my profile is DIY or something, because I don't see any place to click upload anywhere. I even went to Gallery and my Profile.

[wheelhouse]

5 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

I don't do sealed system work but everything sure sounds like it points to a bad compressor and this being a LG, (I suspected a failed Linear Compressor), so I looked it up before posting.

This is one with a Linear Compressor and I would be willing to bet that is the problem - I'm really surprised no one else has already pointed in that direction.

You need to look up your warranty on this, (the sealed system may have a 5th-10th year warranty on sealed system parts only or if you're lucky parts and labor).   It looks like from the diagram lookup this was built sometime in 2010.

Your compressor  Part number: TCA34649901

 

 

Good advice Willie, 

Is this a pretty common issue on this unit I have? 

I am within 10 years, so that is good.

Am I going to have to dig up my receipt, and secondly how will the process work: do I have to convince them that I had 'someone' look at it and they will mail me a compressor? And then I would hire a reputable local tech to install said compressor?

Never had to make a warranty claim for a possible compressor, so I just want all the info I can get so I don't get push back from the warranty dept..

[wheelhouse]

13 hours ago, AccApp said:

Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding! You have successfully completed the lightning round by asking three questions in a row with "yes" answers

 

OMG! Why? Do you have access to brazing equipment as well?

 

High side pressure. Discharge and suction line temperatures optional.

 

I apologize if I sound flippant. It's kinda my thing.

 

I have a vac pump and a manifold gauge etc for automotive use, I'm a bit handy there.

But no, I can't weld or braze.

 

Like Willie's post with the big pic of the compressor - do you also think it's likely a compressor?

I know you said to check the high side - if it is the compressor that's shot then I will likely see resting PSI of ~65-70 (ambient F) and with the comp running trying to operate the fridge you think I'll probably see 80-85psi, simply because it's having trouble compressing?

 

And I asked willie in a response to his post, but I'd love to have your thoughts on this as well:

Am I going to have to dig up my receipt, and secondly how will the process work: do I have to convince Sears Kenmore that I had 'someone' look at it and they will mail me a compressor? And then I would hire a reputable local tech to install said compressor?

Never had to make a warranty claim for a possible compressor, so I just want all the info I can get so I don't get push back from the warranty dept..

 

Thanks all of you!

[wheelhouse]

15 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

Not yet, I don't have a good working amp clamp, I could pick one up tomorrow if needed, unless there is a way for me to check with the two multimeter leads.

With a good compressor what would I likely see using an amp clamp:

 

And then conversely, what would I see using the amp clamp with a shot compressor (that still spins internally and gets normal-warm like mine does): 

[AccApp]

13 minutes ago, wheelhouse said:

Like Willie's post with the big pic of the compressor - do you also think it's likely a compressor?

I know you said to check the high side - if it is the compressor that's shot then I will likely see resting PSI of ~65-70 (ambient F) and with the comp running trying to operate the fridge you think I'll probably see 80-85psi, simply because it's having trouble compressing?

 

And I asked willie in a response to his post, but I'd love to have your thoughts on this as well:

Am I going to have to dig up my receipt, and secondly how will the process work: do I have to convince Sears Kenmore that I had 'someone' look at it and they will mail me a compressor? And then I would hire a reputable local tech to install said compressor?

Never had to make a warranty claim for a possible compressor, so I just want all the info I can get so I don't get push back from the warranty dept..

 

Thanks all of you!

We can always guess at things, I figured it was a compressor from the get go with your crazy high low side pressure.

If the compressor is shot the high side won't be much higher than with the compressor not running.

The serial number will tell when it was made and if it's still under warranty. If you have your receipt, even better.

Warranty work will only be done by an authorized Kenmore servicer (A&E?) or if they can't get anyone out to you might authorize an LG tech to make the repair. Neither one is going to authorize a free compressor to be sent to you. Once they see that bullet valve, they may deny your warranty. I sure would.

[wheelhouse]

9 minutes ago, AccApp said:

 

Warranty work will only be done by an authorized Kenmore servicer (A&E?) or if they can't get anyone out to you might authorize an LG tech to make the repair. Neither one is going to authorize a free compressor to be sent to you. Once they see that bullet valve, they may deny your warranty. I sure would.

1) Ok, so they will send out a tech to verify it's a compressor before authorizing a compressor to be shipped out, that makes sense. Who covers the cost of the tech coming out to make sure that the compressor has failed?That's kind of unfortunate news about the bullet valve, but I figure any tech would have installed that or some other device to be able to check pressures, that would be an ordinary step in diagnosis, no? I really hope they don't void my warranty over that. 

2) So what would you suggest I do? Take the valve off and put jbweld on the hole? Or have a guy braze the hole shut? Seems a bit unfair: for example is it an automatic warranty violation if I have a quality 3rd party service company come out to diag a fridge and they install one of those? Am I obligated by warranty to use only Sears Kenmore for every diagnosis? 

That's like a auto dealer service dept saying, you had your oil changed somewhere else and even though everything was installed correctly, they used an aftermarket filter instead of OE, your warranty is void. I thought that violates the Magnusson-Moss warranty act..

3) Thoughts on how to phrase what I say to warranty customer service?

Just want to know as much as I can, thanks for obliging

[AccApp]

5 hours ago, wheelhouse said:

1) Ok, so they will send out a tech to verify it's a compressor before authorizing a compressor to be shipped out, that makes sense. Who covers the cost of the tech coming out to make sure that the compressor has failed?That's kind of unfortunate news about the bullet valve, but I figure any tech would have installed that or some other device to be able to check pressures, that would be an ordinary step in diagnosis, no? I really hope they don't void my warranty over that. 

2) So what would you suggest I do? Take the valve off and put jbweld on the hole? Or have a guy braze the hole shut? Seems a bit unfair: for example is it an automatic warranty violation if I have a quality 3rd party service company come out to diag a fridge and they install one of those? Am I obligated by warranty to use only Sears Kenmore for every diagnosis? 

That's like a auto dealer service dept saying, you had your oil changed somewhere else and even though everything was installed correctly, they used an aftermarket filter instead of OE, your warranty is void. I thought that violates the Magnusson-Moss warranty act..

3) Thoughts on how to phrase what I say to warranty customer service?

Just want to know as much as I can, thanks for obliging

1) Your warranty will say who pays for the diagnosis. As a betting man I'd say it'll be you.

2) Any tech worth their salt will do what it takes to NOT do a sealed system job under warranty. They are time-consuming, involve lots of heavy lifting and are not very rewarding. Any quality technician would not use a bullet valve. It's presence alone raises a lot of questions: Who put it on there and why? What came out or went into the system?      If you want to maintain your warranty you are obligated to abide by it's terms.

3) Try the truth, you'll have less to remember later. Probably a good idea to offer the tech a bribe at least 50% of the compressor's cost.

 

It just might be worth the cost in actual dollars to avoid the cost in aggra-dollars of dealing with A&E to just pay a local tech to just replace the compressor. It's your call, I don't know what your time is worth to you.

[wheelhouse]

" If you want to maintain your warranty you are obligated to abide by it's terms."

I read through the terms here:

https://www.kenmore.com/warranty-information/#repair

Interestingly it says the linear compressor warranty is 10 years there under the section for Kenmore Elite fridges. In my owner's manual it says 5 years for sealed system components and makes no mention of a 10-year compressor warranty, Sears Kenmore may have extended the warranty for the linear compressor because of all the issues that people were having with them...

What's the ballpark labor price for compressor replacement? If I decide to not go the warranty route or if I'm unable to go the warranty route?