Water Fuel

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Pegi sent me this news clip (wmv file, Windows Media movie, 3 mb) on a guy who invented a way to use water as fuel. Amazing stuff! Could this be the beginning of making petroleum fuels obsolete?

[Mad Mac]

I read something about this years ago, it was a scam called "The car that runs on water". Guy lets you pour several buckets of water into the tank, you drive the car and everything is great. You buy this great money-saving invention, and off you go.

How it works is that the typical 4-stroke petrol driven internal combustion engine will work just fine on a mixture of one part acetone to nine parts water. Just fine, that is, until the acetone breaks down the engine oil......

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

This is different, though, Mad One. Watch the video-- he's actually doing electrolysis on the water to produce a variant of hydrogen gas. It's appears to be a real newsclip, too... unless it's a fake, too! OH... MY... GAWWWWWWWD!

[kdog]

i suspect that any of these theories that actually work will get stuffed away somewhere in an oil drum somewhere quicker than you can say "double the prices on those pumps" - by you know who.

[stumpowitz]

The technology's been there for a while However, it takes too much power to efficiently produce enough hydrogen gas to make it worth while. Great for welding applications but nowhere near the realm of free power for homes and autos as yet Hopefully the future will hold good things though Keep your fingers crossed.

[kdog]

not to mention the fact that there are far too many people living lavishly from the avails of oil to even consider the possibility.

[ctdahle]

Ummm...Don't you all think that if any of this worked, the Japanese, who have no domestic source of oil and who seem to be wizards at making technical stuff work, would be all over it? Just a thought...

[dgs]

Its really using electricity as the fuel - splitting the water to release hydrogen to burn in the engine does not get away from the fact that the electricity to do that has to come from somewhere. 

[sirwired]

To be perfectly frank, this entire clip (with the possible exception of the welding bit) is complete, utter, bunk.  Whoever wrote it should have flunked high school chemistry AND physics.  I am almost sure that the station likely received a few nasty letters about that clip if it actually aired.

1) There is no such thing as HHO.  IIRC, Hydrogen atoms only have a single election bonding site available.  Oxygen has two.  This means that you have HOH, not HHO.  Gaseous HOH is... water vapor.

2) Yes, you can power cars off of Hydrogen gas.  (It is a real PITA, but possible.)  You spark Hydrogen gas (H2), and let it combine with Oxygen, and you get steam and heat.  The problem here is that the process of splitting the Hydrogen off from the Oxygen in water takes FAR more energy than you get from reacting the Hydrogen back with the Oxygen.  You can also obtain Hydrogen from some chemical reactions, but the chemicals have to come from somewhere.

3) The "oil companies are hiding all this free energy tech" conspiracy theories are stupid.  Even an oil company would be all over any technology that would allow them to get rid of all that pesky acutal work.  Any company with technology that could free us from fossil fuels would make Exxons current profits look puny.  Trust me, no oil company that had their hands on "free energy" technology would hide it, they would sell it for all they were worth and become "rich beyond the dreams of avarice".  Or better yet, they would sell all their oil wells and refineries to some poor schmuck of a company, and THEN make a zillion bucks off of free energy.

4) That clip is demonstrating two things: 1) A new welding technology.  Fine.  No inherent issues with the science there.  2) Essentially implying the guy has a perpetual motion machine.  (You pour water in the car, "burn" the water in the engine, get water back, repeat.)  Simple thermodynamics they teach in high school tells us that is not possible in any way shape or form in something that will fit under a car hood.  In additon it would be impossible to profit on any such device, even if it existed (which it doesn't), because patent law specifically prohibits patents for perpetual motion machines.  Why?  Because the patent process does not determine an invention actually works, just that it is unique.  However, a patent could provide an "air of legitamacy" to a scam that would convince investors to put money into something that cannot exist.

There is one, and only one, way to get massive energy from Hydrogen:  Fusion.  However, all attempts to achieve fusion have not resulted in anything practical.  Current experiements have resulted in:

1) Hydrogen Bombs.  Not exactly a practical way to create electricity for consumer use for obvious reasons.

2) Tokamak and High-Temp laser experiments: Requires god-awful huge magnets and high-temperature plasma or god-awful huge capacitors to work.  No experiments yet have gotten more energy out of the fusion than it took to create the reaction.

3) Cold Fusion: (A Fusion process that does NOT require the previously mentioned god-awful huge equipment.)  No proof it actually exists.  A few scientists have claimed to have had it, but their experiments have not been reproducible.

Doing his bit for scientific literacy,

SirWired

[Keinokuorma]

There are possibly cases where if water is sprayed into a super hot fire, it is broken down into oxygen and hyrdogen. If this burning material is more prone to bind oxygen, than hydrogen is, the fire will get worse and release flammable hydrogen gas... but this is highly unlikely, and I haven't heard of any cases where this has actually been done in a controlled situation... and even less cases where this has been used to turn water into fuel for a practical application.

The controllable methods of breaking water down to hydrogen and oxygen, consist mostly of electrolytic methods. so far there has been no such method that wouldn't consume at least the amount of energy that can later be produced.

Although water as the source of fuel would be virtually free, the process to do it is anything but free. Solar power itself is free, but collection, storage and distribution aren't.

I'm and 0lD 5k00l man... I want to see a brief, comprehensive and detailed explanation of how it works, before I believe it.

[Keinokuorma]

With a comprehensive and detailed explanation, I mean something along these lines...

http://www.lumileds.com/technology/ll_video.cfm

...and still, they could make a tech-hype animation video of how water can be used as free fuel.

[mattn124]

That news clip was aired on CNN if I remember right. I can't tell exactly because for some reason,, I got audio when I played it but the picture was frozen on the first frame.

  Here is a link to the website of the company featured in that video clip posted at the start of this topic:

http://hytechapps.com/

Look around the site for yourself before you make complete judgement on this topic. I don't think they will power the world,, but the welding/cutting aspect of it alone are pretty damn cool...    

   

matt

[mattn124]

Here's a link to a 16 minute video they have on their site in Quicktime format...

I dunno if the link will work like this but here it is

http://hytechapps.com/video/hta05.mov

matt

[Keinokuorma]

This makes me think their HHO gas is electrolyzed water which contains a stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. It could be used like that. Still the energy has to be taken from somewhere. the video contains a flaw about its chemistry. There was an animation with two oxygen atoms bound to a hydrogen atom, which is imjpossible. It's always two hydrogens bound to one oxygen.

Still, this would be an old idea, the stuff has been used as rocket fuel for some time, only with pre-filled separate O/H tanks. Also the mixture is readily combustible without air, even when compressed to liquid form.

[Heimhenge]

Yes, the energy has to come from somewhere.  There's no free lunch in thermodynamics.  Interestingly though, one can use concentrated solar energy to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen.  You'll need a very high temperature.  Water won't dissociate from pure heat until it gets to about 2780 degrees fahrenheit, but you can get those kind of temps with a concentrating solar collector.  A small scale demo has already been done.

Check out this cool (hot?) pic of a concentrating solar collector I built for cooking:

http://www.heimhenge.com/cooker.html

 

[Keinokuorma]

S.A.R.M. wrote:

Watch the video-- he's actually doing electrolysis on the water to produce a variant of hydrogen gas. It's appears to be a real newsclip, too... unless it's a fake, too!

Yes it is very much a fake. This may have been aired as a joke, knowing it is a joke.

There is no "variant of hydrogen gas" that can be made in a chemical process.

[Econo Appliance]

 

 Well it's not water-fuel,   but I own a 1998 Honda Civic GX which runs on CNG!

 

 

[mike1148]

Here is a link that may change you mind about water cars

http://www.waterpoweredcar.com/index.html

Also another one to show you how many Secrets your goverment cia, big business ect. are keeping from you

Secret Knowledge

http://lgtmarketing.com/cl/SecretKnowledge.html

[Keinokuorma]

Yes, it's about splitting water by electrolysis - nobody's claimed it couldn't be done. But it isn't free in any sense, it would require an effective method to produce electric power with low pollution... and otherwise low environmental impact... this would be easy if people weren't so hard - we tend to want this and that, aren't willing to pay more than we think it is worth, and when a solution is found that is otherwise suitable to our needs, we don't like how it looks and what it does outside its purpose.

[mike1148]

Thanks for the Post

:yikes:I think most people miss the Whole Point of whats really going on in the world. 

The Problem is with the Greed... for Power,:poison: Bankers:poison:.. the  rulers of the World. We have had FREE energy for <YEARS>.

The Problem is that there is NOT much Profit in it ... compared to what these thief's are stealing from us Now.

 So they dis-credit, pay off, bribe, or even Kill people to keep people from finding out... what there keeping secret from the people of the world... NOT just The U.S.

Most people don't even Know.. that U.S. does NOT print our own MONEY....  Most other country's is the same way!

They borrow money from the Federal Reserve Bank (Bankers)

A Privately owned Bank and Pay interest on that money.. No wonder we so far in debt!

 They make the MONEY Out of then air. Like a big checking account... They just type in a few Numbers and bingo America ect... has more money ..lmao

BANKS... also Only have to have 10% in their bank, on what they LOAN out. Its really mind blowing what they get away with!

Thats ALL Banks! They are stealing Interest from us when we borrow money  We should be able to take a jar of air to them when we pay back our loans...Thats about what it amounts too when we get loans lol .. they even get to loan money out on the money that you borrow lmao Its like a credit for them

Fort Knox and Gold backing our money went out the window many moons ago.

The easiest way to KEEP people Slaves.. is to keep them in the dark so they dont even KNOW they are ....

Want to find out some truth?

Secrets of Knowledge is a good place to start

Thanks again for the Post :rah:

[Keinokuorma]

Well now it appears that the fools back here will almost double the price of electricity... it already jumped when the compnaies went public and started selling in each others' areas...

don't know how it is planned over there, but here they allow consumers to select their power providers... for an example someone in Helsinki could pay for aero power produced in Lapland... OK the Helsinki customer pays the Lapland company per kWh that they assumedly sell him, and the local company still bills them for transfer... and, what the Helsinki guy doesn't necessarily understand, is that he doesn't get what he pays for, but is likely to get mostly something produced in a nuclear or fossilic plant, possibly in another country... because whether bought from abroad, or produced at a domestic station, it's all fed to a nation-wide network, and consumed first come first serve.

There was a time when the Republic owned the the mail and telephone company entirely, and the majority of the larger power companies... and there was even some law about government owned companies, that such companies that sell to individuals may not collect remarkable markup over their own costs... of course they collected some markup, and added taxes, which of course is sort of markup, but power didn't cost nearly as much as now... Now the mail company is individualized, they're jacking up their prices all the time, their service is going worse and worse... the telecommunication business luckily now has good competition and the prices are at bearable levels... but power is going to jack up 70% or more by 2008... that can't be because it would suddenly be that much more expensive to produce.

Nay, the big company bosses just want more markup, just like with the petroleum stuff... why the hell did gasoline prices go DOWN here when the barrel of raw oil in the US was in an all time high? No, it's nothing to do with how much it costs to produce, it's all about how much the bosses want.

[mike1148]

Heres a guy that found a way to ignite salt water with radio waves... got a few different news  cast coverage 

Burning salt water

http://heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.9.JohnKanzius.htm