what is "warm"? Electrolux fornt loader

[dbeach]

I have a 2018 Electrolux front loader model EFLS627UTT.   It is under warranty.

Setting the wash temperature to warm or hot has no effect on wash temperature.  In both cases, hot water enters the machine for only 5-8 seconds.  After that, only cold water is used.  This results in a 60 F wash temperature, at best.

Today a technician told me the washer is performing to spec and that this is normal behavior.  No repair needed.  I am dumbfounded.   I called Electrolux to learn what temperature corresponds to the hot and warm settings.  The consumer service desk does not have that information.  The tech couldn't tell me either.   I feel duped.

Is this normal washer behavior?  If not, what could be causing it?   I continue to pursue this with the service department.

Thanks for any insights.

I

[sh2sh2]

What wash cycle are you using, try something other then the " normal" cycle, other cycles may give hotter water

[MrApplianceMatt]

That model has a heater built into it. It’s likely that the unit utilizes that in a “warm” wash rather that relying on a mixing valve? I’d have to see the tech sheet to verify this though. Are there error codes present? Sometimes a temperature error will just get stored without halting machine function.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by MrApplianceMatt

[dbeach]

I have used three different cycles, normal and sanitize, and clean.  The washer allows one to select different  four different temperatures during the normal cycle, but the settings have no effect.   The heater does kick in for both the sanitize and clean (clean the washer) cycles.  Too hot for some fabrics.   I will try a few other cycles to see if any of them allows a warm wash. 

There are no error codes showing or stored.  I will check again tomorrow since it's been awhile.  The tech did not check.

Mr. Appliance Matt,   I assumed the built in heater came into play only when temperatures beyond that coming from my water heater were needed, but perhaps that's not how it works?

I spoke with the repair manager at the store I purchased it from (not a big box.  local appliance store) and they are sending a second tech, this one trained by electrolux, next week.  Seems that although the store has its own repair staff, they are not Electrolux saavy. 

Any guidance folks can provide before then would be greatly appreciated.

Is the tech manual available anywhere?

[dave2543]

Hi Dbeach, how far to the water heater?, and how hot is the water coming out of the hot water faucet after it runs full blast for one minute?  Also if the cold water is cold enough, the non-heater cycles may not get very warm at all.   Of course if you had no problems with your previous machine, these are less likely to be factors.  

The only diagram I could find that was readable was at APC.  It shows a flow meter, not a thermistor. It appears to show a temp sensor in the heater circuit.

IF IF IF IF so, the computer will probably fill the tub with a mix of so many seconds from each valve, until the water level is meant.  If the temps at the faucet vary off the design assumptions, you will get a tub of water that is off the designed goal temp.  

IDK Elux that much, but I know this could happen on other makes that did not use a thermistor on the water inlet.  Good luck, please repost what the tech says?

 

 

[J5*]

A lot of machines don’t fill with hot water due to fabric shock 

how are you detrermining what the actual wash temp is ?? 

[dbeach]

Thanks so much to everyone taking the time to ask questions.   I really appreciate it and will try to answer in order.  (FYI - Tech #2 will be here Monday. Will let you know what happens.)

Dave2453  -  The water heater is fifteen feet away.  It takes 20 seconds to establish hot (125 F) water at the sink next to the washer.   I ran hot water to the sink before running the washer to produce a best case "instant hot"  scenario for the washer.  Even then, wash water temperature only approaches 60.   My prior machine was a 25 year old top loader.   With hot and cold supplies at 125 F and 48 F, I had  no problem getting a hot or warm wash.    I have my model's electrical schematic from the Electrolux site.  It shows a thermister symbol (close but not exact to IEC drawing standard) integral(?) with the heater.  Also shows pressure switch and flow meter, but I couldn't tell you physically where these are located.    Not sure at the moment how to upload the schematic to the site.

J5*  -  I measure the wash temperature by pausing the wash, opening the door, and inserting a digital thermometer in the water.  I double checked thermometer accuracy in an ice bath and boiling water (sea level), so I know it's accurate within a couple degrees.  The first time I measured temperatures every few minutes.  Later on, I waited until near the end of the wash cycle, and measured once.  I didn't see any difference in the end-of-wash numbers.  Have done this with and without clothes in the wash.

My background...  Spent most of my career (now retired) as an engineer dealing with thermal control systems, primarily in a vacuum.  Been around long enough to know that while I understand the fundamentals, I don't know squat about how this machine is works.   I'm all about diagnosing a problem and just throwing parts at something drives me nuts.

Thanks again so very much for your questions/suggestions.

 

 

 

 

[dbeach]

13 hours ago, J5* said:

A lot of machines don’t fill with hot water due to fabric shock

Had to google "fabric shock" for a bit.  Learned a bit here:

http://www.uschemical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/L000211_Laundry_Cycle_Functionality.pdf.

Had no idea there could be so much science to washing.

 

[J5*]

30 minutes ago, dbeach said:

Had no idea there could be so much science to washing.

Yep 

iirc a lot of fl machine I have dealt with will only fill with hot if the temp has been set above 60c (it’s metric down here)  

if you actually want to measure temps then best way would be measure the waste water from the drain pipe 

stopping and starting the machine can cause you all sorts of issues as there will be failsafes in the software 

[dbeach]

6 hours ago, J5* said:

if you actually want to measure temps then best way would be measure the waste water from the drain pipe

Great suggestion!  Thanks.   I took the measurements again.   Unfortunately the results did not change.

It appears the thermister and heater are functioning properly.   When the washer calls for heat, it heats.   I ran diagnostic test 08 and the water temperature increased as it should (from 55 F to 84 F over a few minutes).   I also identified a few cycle and temperature combinations where the heater would heat.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find  a way to produce WARM or HOT water during any cycle.  I get close with the WHITEST WHITES cycle on HOT.  It adds ten minutes to the normal cycle, fills the tub with cold water (no hot), then heats the water to around 100F over the latest ten minutes or so.  None of this is in the owner manual.   The SANITIZE temperature setting uses 100% water from the hot tap, and heats it further using the electric heater.

It sounded crazy at the time, but unfortunately, it appears my tech wasn't blowing smoke when he said the WARM and HOT settings have no effect.  This 100% contradicts the owner manual and how the unit is advertised.   Two discussions with Electrolux Consumer Help have been of no help.  They waffle terribly on the simplest of questions, and discount much of what the owner manual says.

It's starting to look like what Electrolux says the washer should do, and what I and the manual think it should do are at odds.   I'm still testing each and every cycle combination, but have yet to find one that will give me a warm (around 85 F) wash.   Maybe my next step is to go back to the place of purchase and give them questions in writing about how the washer should perform, so there's no misunderstanding.  I was going to have a second tech out on Monday, but Electrolux tells me I will be charged if the second tech finds no problem.   What the manual says has no bearing on this.  I don't like it, but that's the situation at this point.

Still looking for suggestions on how best to approach this.

[sh2sh2]

Welcome to energy star appliances, play around with different settings and cycles, some cycles may give better results, if you have a heavy duty cycle you can try that

[A & G Enterprises]

its about saving energy and water

[J5*]

4 hours ago, A & G Enterprises said:

its about saving energy and water

Just looked at the specs and it says 85kwh/year 

there’s the big clue right there 

[dbeach]

The cycles, ACTIVEWEAR, WHITEST WHITES, and HEAVY DUTY, all provide warm (85 F) and/or hot (100 F) wash water.  I think running Heavy Duty with a LIGHT soil setting comes closest what NORMAL would provide if it could heat water.

I'm all for energy efficiency,  but for Electrolux to document  as available temperature settings that do nothing when selected is sloppy, or plain dishonest.  Curious what the energy star certification test procedure entails and if it emphasizes the NORMAL cycle.

 

 

 

 

 

[J5*]

3 hours ago, dbeach said:

Curious what the energy star certification test procedure entails and if it emphasizes the NORMAL cycle.

 

Our government energy rating tests are based on one specific  fully loaded cycle 

the details are shown on the sticker and also shown in the user guides 

manufacturers do some shonky things to pass these tests as well 

[darren412]

I wouldnt analyze

On 3/28/2019 at 3:15 PM, dbeach said:

I have a 2018 Electrolux front loader model EFLS627UTT.   It is under warranty.

Setting the wash temperature to warm or hot has no effect on wash temperature.  In both cases, hot water enters the machine for only 5-8 seconds.  After that, only cold water is used.  This results in a 60 F wash temperature, at best.

Today a technician told me the washer is performing to spec and that this is normal behavior.  No repair needed.  I am dumbfounded.   I called Electrolux to learn what temperature corresponds to the hot and warm settings.  The consumer service desk does not have that information.  The tech couldn't tell me either.   I feel duped.

Is this normal washer behavior?  If not, what could be causing it?   I continue to pursue this with the service department.

Thanks for any insights.

I

I wouldnt alalyze your washer too much.    Frigidaire / Electrolux  products are  not the top of the line models.   Between pre wash temperatures , regular wash temperatures, rinse temperatures, With all the energy efficient changes to todays machines.  If you want to select hot water to your specifications in your pre wash and regular wash cycles , I suggest you find an older maytag or whirlpool direct drive model Washer.  Then you can adjust the water to your liking.  

[A Plus]

On 3/28/2019 at 4:57 PM, MrApplianceMatt said:

That model has a heater built into it. It’s likely that the unit utilizes that in a “warm” wash rather that relying on a mixing valve? I’d have to see the tech sheet to verify this though. Are there error codes present? Sometimes a temperature error will just get stored without halting machine function.

 

 

Any idea how to put this machine in test mode please,I had a weird one ,has e11, heard water coming but slow, I rested it and started acting weird, only drains and stop with door locked,repaced pcb started fill little bit than stopped , replaced water valve same.

Any ideas?