KitchenAid Gas Range KGSS907SSS01, Bake works fine, but Broiler does not work

[steve826]

Hi, I have a KitchenAid KGSS907SSS01 gas range. It is about 11 years old and has been well used during that time. The bake burner works fine, as do all of the 4 burners on the cook-top. But the Broiler is not working (no flame at all comes out of the Broiler burner). When I press the BROIL button and then START, I can see and hear the sparks at the broiler's spark igniter, but apparently no gas comes out to light up and burn. I do not smell any gas as I attempt to light the Broiler.

Not sure if I need to replace the broiler's spark igniter, the spark module, the gas safety valve, or some other part. Can someone help advise?

Thanks!
Steve

[darren412]

""shut off power to unit""     Go to the gas valve assembly in the back and mark the gas valve assembly where each different colored wire goes on the gas valve assembly.  Then disconnect the orange wired terminal (center)  this is the common terminal connection at the gas valve assembly .   Then disconnect the blue wired terminal connection at the gas valve assembly.  This is your broil function terminal at the gas valve assembly. There should be continuity between both those terminals.     ""verify with a meter""    If there is no continuity, then the bi metal for the broil function in the gas valve assembly may have buned out and that complete valve will need to be replaced.    The orange wired terminal (center) to the red wired terminal on the gas valve assembly is for the bake cycle.   according to you , the bake function cycle of the oven is working so you should have continuity  between the red and orange terminals on the gas valve assembly.  If there is continuity  between the orange to blue and orange to red wired terminals then your issue will be somwwhere else.   it will either be a bad wire in the broil circuit or a bad broil relay on the appliance manager oven control board or a Bad connection in your spark module that feeds the gas valve assembly for your broil function.  this will require a different set of testing procedures and these components will be a little harder to gain access to.    So I would start here first since your not smelling any slight gas odor from the broil burner in the oven cavity.   

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@darren412 It's definitely not going to be the gas safety valve in this situation - on these DSI units if either of the coils in the gas safety valve is open, neither bake or broil will work - if I remember correctly it will still spark the ignitor a couple times but not light up the burner.

[darren412]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:20 AM, Budget Appliance Repair said:

@darren412 It's definitely not going to be the gas safety valve in this situation - on these DSI units if either of the coils in the gas safety valve is open, neither bake or broil will work - if I remember correctly it will still spark the ignitor a couple times but not light up the burner.

Hi Budget.   Steve mentioned he did not smell any gas since it was sparking and trying to light the burner tube up. In the past with these I had noticed that when either broil or bake burners did not light, There was always a smell of gas from it trying to ignite. Do you think its odd to not have a slight gas odor ?    I could not find any where on the schematic , what the voltage readings should be at the gas valve from the DSI.   I cant remember exactly but I thought it was suppossed to be something like  3-5 volts AC at the gas valve but not posative with this model.   I also was not aware that if one of the bi metals in the gas valve were bad that the other burner would shut down also.  thanks for that tip.  This must be similiar to the units that after 3 attempts at lighting I think the control board locks out and after it does that you have to press cancel to reset the control functions.   On those units I believe they had a couple of service pointers . one for the DSI board and a solder joint protruding out to far was arcing out on the DSI boards metal housing.   The other was the bake or broil spark igniter needed to be repositioned to spark better for the burners ignition process and the new igniter also came with new DSI harness wires.   

Edited September 30, 2019 by darren412

[Budget Appliance Repair]

On 9/26/2019 at 3:02 PM, steve826 said:

The bake burner works fine, as do all of the 4 burners on the cook-top. But the Broiler is not working (no flame at all comes out of the Broiler burner).

Since the bake burner works fine I don't see how the broil coil would be open - but I guess there could be a physical problem in the valve not letting it open, (maybe the broil valve stopper in the valve is stuck to outlet area).  These valves don't use bi-metal with heating wire wrapped around them like the hot surface ignitor safety valve use - it uses electromagnetic coils, (8 - 18 Vdc).

Does seem a little odd that he doesn't smell gas, but this is the broil that's not working and the gas raises and it's not that much, so maybe he just didn't notice it.

Yes, all the Whirlpool DSI units lock out after three ignition attempts and you have to cancel and try to restart.

These units can be a real pain in the ass - I pretty much refuse to work on them anymore.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Budget Appliance Repair

[darren412]

12 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

Since the bake burner works fine I don't see how the broil coil would be open - but I guess there could be a physical problem in the valve not letting it open, (maybe the broil valve stopper in the valve is stuck to outlet area).  These valves don't use bi-metal with heating wire wrapped around them like the hot surface ignitor safety valve use - it uses electromagnetic coils, (8 - 18 Vdc).

Budget can steve 826 switch the blue wire and red wire to each others terminal at the gas valve and then start a bake cycle and see if the broil burner lights up ??   He did mention that the bake cycle functions and lights the bake burner ?   Not posative you can do this but as you mentioned they both get that  8-18 vdc right 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@darren412 Pretty sure that's not going to work - I'm pretty sure these DSI modules are like the surface spark relight modules that the module is going to be looking for the flame sense on the burner it should be lighting.

Electrical Terminals:  
Top:         Broil  1/8”
 Middle:   Common  1/4”  
 Bottom:  Bake  3/16”

Can't put the Broil wire on the Bake terminal but could swap the Bake wire to Broil terminal .

[darren412]

     steve should be able to disconnect the broil wire (blue 1/8")  then put his leads on the common DC  terminal at the valve  and the disconnected blue wire.    if he is getting between 8-18vdc then that valve should have been letting the gas through I would think Budget.  Or are these a little more of a pain in the ass as you mentioned earlier

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Don't need to disconnect the wires and the test can be done at the board - that is one of the diagnostic procedures - to make sure you have the 8-18vdc at the bake or the broil valve connections at the board when it is doing the spark sequence.

[rebootej]

Hi guys, first time posting on this site. I have almost the same exact problem. But I do detect a very faint smell of gas. When I hold i lighter to the broiler bar it barely lights for about a second. Very small flames run the length of the bar and then go out. I was only able to see this using a lighter.

 

Otherwise i can hear the electronic spark trying to light the broiler but it fails. It looks like I am not getting gas? or enough gas? As the previous user posted everything else works bake and top burners. The electric broiler element heats up as well. but no luck to the gas broiler. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance. 

[isaac]

6 hours ago, rebootej said:

the electronic spark trying to light the broiler but it fails

Might be some greas build up at the igniter area,  also might be spark getting lost, might need new harness to spark,  

[Vance R]

One easy thing to check is the spud or orfice. Remove burner tube and then remove the spud. Look at it to make sure it is clear. Use a small wire or torch tip cleaner to clean if needed. Also make sure the area on the spud mount is clean as well.  Since most people bake this area gets covered with grease.

[ABA Tech]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:32 PM, Vance R said:

One easy thing to check is the spud or orfice. Remove burner tube and then remove the spud. Look at it to make sure it is clear. Use a small wire or torch tip cleaner to clean if needed. Also make sure the area on the spud mount is clean as well.  Since most people bake this area gets covered with grease.

I second this. The fact that your igniter is sparking means that the valve is open, so something is preventing the gas from making it to the burner tube.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ABA Tech

[rebootej]

I tried to light it with a lighter and but there wasnt enough flame to sustain? How do i check the spud? What is it? Sorry totally newbie. My broiler goes out the back of the oven at the top right corner, so unsure how grease would drip on it?

[Vance R]

19 hours ago, rebootej said:

How do i check the spud? What is it?

Basically it is the screw on orfice or jet for the broil burner. Take it off and look. Spud is circled in green.

 

 

[ABA Tech]

Actually had a Whirlpool DSI range the other day where the DSI board would only send 4V to the valve. You can check if this is the case with yours by taking out the bottom drawer, you'll see the valve in the back. It'll have three wires on it; put your meter leads on the top and middle ones (meter set to DC voltage) and turn on the broiler. You want to see 8-18V. If you're seeing anything else that's a problem. Not sure if this could affect just the broil but it's worth checking.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

10 hours ago, Vance R said:

Take it off and look. Spud is circled in green.

Actually if you want to be technically correct, I'm pretty sure the part you have circled in green is actually called an orifice hood, the spud would be the tapered needle, (under the orifice hood and only seen by looking down the orifice top or removing the orifice hood), with or without the center drilled out for metering LP gas.

On older units the spud in the center that the orifice hood screws down on is just a tapered needle that blocks off the metering hole/orifice in the orifice hood to make the amount of gas coming out less to compensate for the higher pressure LP gas.

Newer spuds have the center of the tapered spud drilled to the exact size needed for LP gas and by screwing the orifice hood all the way down on the spud you are left with just the metering orifice in the middle of the spud to meter the gas out.

[rebootej]

I took the spud apart. I was a little grimy not bad. When i reassembled the broiler and spud. I tested and was able to get the broiler to light for half a second again but then it went out. So its getting gas but not enough?

I missed the part about checking voltage to the valve ill do that next.