665.13543N411 Kenmore dishwasher pump seal/grommet Q

[reezekeys]

Hello, first post – happy to have found this forum! I'm getting some water dripping from what looks like the diverter (?) motor on the bottom of the dishwasher (NOT the drain pump, this is in the middle, attached to the shaft that turns the lower spray arm). Some (well, a lot of!) googling has led me to believe that this is a somewhat common problem of the shaft's seal or grommet needing to be replaced. I'm up for the job but I see some conflicting info when I start looking for this part. I want to make sure I order the correct part and that's why I'm asking here.

One source says this seal is not available separately and you have to buy this entire assembly: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/fuunbjrla6-0022-665/id-w10500299

Then again, I did find this – but I'm not sure if this is the part in question: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/58xg9i9osd-0022-665/id-w10538166

Also, searching with my particular model # & brand led me to this, which appears to be the same part as my previous link however it does not mention Kenmore, only Whirlpool:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WPW10538166-Whirlpool-Dishwasher-Pump-Grommet/323831250340?hash=item4b65d8bda4:g:mrYAAOSwQCBdRYzG

Of course I could pull the dishwasher out & disassemble it to find out exactly what I need – but that means that it'll be out of the cabinet for a few days, and that will annoy my wife immensely – so I think you can understand why I'd rather not go that route! Another reason is that we are using the dishwasher now – I have an old cookie baking sheet under it, and empty about 8 oz of water after each load. I know this might eventually compromise the motor so I'm keen to get this fixed ASAP.

Thanks in advance for any help with this!

[Vance R]

This kenmore is made by whirlpool. The diverter shaft seal is in the sump assembly. Common leak

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/product/1ce8hmuc2o-0022-665/id-w10455268

If you google it there are post out on the web where people have found the correct size seal that is in the sump for the diverter shaft .

Most pro don't want the liability and replace the whole sump assembly pump motor, diverter motor complete. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Vance R
Added diverter to description

[MrApplianceMatt]

Welcome! First thing, Kenmore does not manufacture anything, they are a marketing company. Your dishwasher is, indeed, made by Whirlpool. There are 3 different motors under there, wash/recirculating, drain, and diverter. You should have enough slack in the drain hose, water supply line, and power to pull the unit out and run it. This generally only requires the removal of the kickplate and the two screws at the inside top of the door.You should be able to move the insulation and see exactly where it's leaking from. Hopefully it's not the sump seal, but you're not going to get an accurate answer unless you can fully examine what's going on. Your first link shows an interior piece that the spray arm mounts to and is unlikely to be the source of the water leak. Your second link shows the grommet that the wash/recirculating pump mounts to, and while it can leak, I've never seen one that did out of nowhere. 

[reezekeys]

Many thanks for the replies so far! Attached is a pic I just took and the arrow points to where I see the water dripping from. The leak occurs only while the dishwasher is running.

One thing I did not mention was that I just replaced a clogged drain hose extension which is how I discovered this leak. I was inspecting my handywork as the dishwasher was running. I cancelled the dishwasher cycle which forced it to drain and I saw zero water coming from any of the drain hose couplings – but during the cycle I did see water dripping from where I point it out here. I guess it's possible I damaged something while working on this dishwasher but I honestly don't know how that could have happened – I was nowhere near this part while I was fixing the drain hose extension. Maybe this leak has been there for a while, or just started. We have very hard water and I've been a little lazy about descaling so maybe that somehow contributed to this.

Matt, I take it that the grommet I linked to is for a completely different part – my leak is at the diverter motor, correct? Thank you for correcting my mistake in thinking there were two pumps in the dishwasher, instead of three.

Vance, you say that most pros replace the whole deal - motor included. However, your link to the "Dishwasher Sump and Seal Assembly WPW10455268" does not appear to include the motor. Seeing as my dishwasher fills, drains and washes normally (except for the leak of course) might I assume the motor is – at this moment – still good, and that just buying & installing what you linked to will solve my problem? Thanks a ton for the helpful replies! Rob

[reezekeys]

OK... well it looks like this is the correct part... thinking I will take a chance, unless I hear different from the experts here. I can afford to lose $13 and a little time.

Grommet

The Sears parts direct site lists this as "no longer available."

I take it the diverter motor must be removed to replace the grommet? Or, can it be done from the inside of the tub? Thanks again for the helpful replies!

[Vance R]

If you just google it. Several youtube video show on how to replace seal and couple people sell the part on ebay or amazon.  The part was available from Whirlpool, but they stopped supplying it.  

[reezekeys]

Thanks Vance. I did google it and it looks like what I found is correct although some part numbers may have been replaced with different ones (and I just realized that partselect .com uses their own numbers). The seal I linked to says "If your dishwasher Diverter Motor is part number W10476222, W10537869, or AP5650272, this grommet WILL work for your application!" and my motor appears to be the W10537869 so I should be good. I only wanted confirmation from the experts here because this is a non-returnable item, but I'm satisfied this is correct and if it's not then its a big $13 and a lesson learned, so no biggie. Thanks again!

[Vance R]

Looks like it should work. 

[Hiroshi]

I would advise replacing the DIVERTER motor AND grommet as the old grommet will have worn the plastic shaft where it rides- failure to replace both almost always means an early, if not instant return leak!

Also beware that there 2 different grommet placements depending on the model!! Either visible from the inside of the dishwasher after removing the washarm and diverter disc OR it fits on the diverter shaft first and is pushed into place from underneath!! 

Take the diverter disc off before ordering the grommet so you get the correct one as they are different diameters!

[reezekeys]

Thanks Hiroshi, I just saw your reply right now. I thought I was set up to get emails when there were replies in this thread, maybe I missed it.

Fittingly, the grommet I ordered is sitting in my mailbox as I type! I'm not that excited to find out I may need the motor as well!

What do you think of this guy's solution to put some 1/4" heatshrink tubing on the motor shaft? He claims it fixed his leak without replacing the bad grommet!

I just did a little more u-tubing and came across a video where a repair person says to use food-grade silicone grease on the grommet before installing, so I've ordered some. The repair will wait until I get it. As far as the motor, well I'm inclined to at least TRY the grommet by itself (or with this heatshrink fix) first and monitor things before spending the bigger bucks – unless the motor shaft shows obvious wear, I guess. I'll know more when I disassemble things. It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just hoping I'll be the exception! I've been using a baking pan to catch the dripping so there's no damage to my floor. Thanks for your helpful reply!

[Vance R]

+1 for silicone grease.

Not a fan of the shrink tube idea.

[reezekeys]

I think the idea is to build up the diameter of the motor shaft slightly, perhap to compensate for any wear? Yea, I do wonder how long a repair like that would hold. Maybe the grease will keep the friction to a minimum. It's a crapshoot but the motor is $70. The dishwasher was brand new and installed a little over four years ago. I guess I'm wanting to be optimistic but I'll try the grommet by itself first and if it still drips I'll go for the motor too. I definitely understand why a  pro fixing these things would do the entire assembly including the motor – it does not look good for you guys if the leak returns! In my case I can just look in the mirror to place the blame!

[reezekeys]

OK I started the repair... and already I'm in trouble! The old seal is just not coming out. I am using a pick tool and needle-nose pliers and have mangled it nicely. The outer surface of the seal appears to be cemented to the sump – it is just not moving at all. I'm trying to be delicate and not hit the diverter motor shaft with the pick tool but this is not looking good right now.

I saw a video made by Appliance Parts Pro about replacing the sump and in the beginning it shows the part very briefly. The grommet appears to be included. Here's a link to the video at that exact time: 

 

(I wish there was a way not to display the video here, just have the link by itself... sorry). Is it possible that the grommet is actually attached to the sump somehow, not simply pressed in, and not designed to be replaced by itself? No youtube has mentioned this possibility. One thing is that we have very hard water and I will take the blame if this is my fault for not descaling more often. Here's a pic of the grommet as it stands now, after my efforts at scraping it out:

(Yea, it's nasty looking, I know!). At this point I am thinking I should remove the diverter motor and see if that makes things easier, but I have an issue disconnecting the water supply so I can get the dishwasher all the way out from the cabinet. I won't bore anyone with those details (yet!).

It's just typical – for me, at least – that you the  youtube videos you see always say how easy it is to do these repairs!

I'm not sure what to do right now. I guess I should continue with my plan to disconnect the water supply, get the dishwasher out, lie it down, and remove the diverter motor. However, if the grommet is indeed affixed to the sump assembly, I'm not sure how this is gonna help me. Maybe I can get a little more agressive in my removal efforts if the motor shaft isn't there.

If anyone has any advice I am forever grateful! Thanks.

[reezekeys]

AHHH... never mind!! I got the grommet out. After checking out the replacement, it occured to me that I was just ripping the rubber off the metal part underneath. I dug in a little deeper with my pry tool and it came out! I did wind up taking out the diverter motor, and it's probably what allowed me the space to get my pry tool in the right spot. Now onward to the fix... I hope I haven't gouged any part of the sump or motor shaft with this tool and compromised the seal. I can only imagine what you guys are thinking when you try to help an amateur like me! My apologies!

[Terry Carmen]

> I can only imagine what you guys are thinking when you try to help an amateur like me!

We're thinking that it's shame that the manufacturers got rid of an elegant, easy to service design that washed great, in exchange for a collection of tinker-toys that takes 3 hours to do a load and requires replacing the entire bottom of the dishwasher when a tiny rubber part fails.

[reezekeys]

Touché! Well I wouldn't actually know since I've never tried to fix a dishwasher before (I'm a keyboard player!). Our last dishwasher was a Bosch we got in 2005. We never heard about the recall on that model (due to a faulty electrical part that tended to catch fire). March 2014 we found out the hard way – the fire had us out of our house for a year & a half. The entire interior was rebuilt and we got all new appliances including the Kenmore dishwasher I'm attempting to fix now. I do remember being surprised at the wash cycle taking almost four hours!

Before the fire we had appliances from the 1990s (they were in the house when we bought it in 2002). No dishwasher then, but a Kenmore washer & dryer built like tanks. Being the semi-broke musician I am, I did my own repairs but they were pretty easy – a clutch in the washer, and a rubber belt in the dryer. I remember how simple these guys were. No computers and not much plastic. And they lasted!

[reezekeys]

The grommet is installed, everything put back together, and I ran a very abbreviated cycle. Where before I had seen dripping water from the diverter motor, now there is none! Tomorrow I'll do a full cycle and maybe keep the cookie sheet underneath for a few days and after that, if no water shows up I'll pronounce this a success (for now!). Thanks to all who participated in this thread, I appreciate the time you took to read my long posts!

I definitely wasted hours today, misunderstanding how this grommet is constructed and thinking it was somehow "glued" into the sump. In reality it was just stuck. I needed to take the diverter motor out so I had room to maneuver my pick tool to where I could truly get underneath the grommet. After that it came out fairly easily – but the videos I saw all showed folks reaching in with a pick tool with the motor shaft present and easily popping the grommet out. I'm wondering if my hard water's scaling somehow contributed to my grommet being stuck harder than usual. In any event, none of the youtube videos or their comments mentioned this possibility. Live and learn!

Now I'm going to investigate how to do a serious de-scaling. Somehow the "container of white vinegar in the top rack" trick I've read about seems like it might not be enough; I think I need some big guns here. Thanks again guys!

[reezekeys]

To tie a quick bow on this thread, it's a little over a month after my repair and so far so good. Thanks again to all who helped out with advice & comments.

For peace of mind I may get one of those water leak sensors to place under the dishwasher. I didn't realize how cheap they were, and some can send an alert to your phone in addition to an audible alarm.

[bujman]

Just replaced divertor motor grommet under dishwasher. No leaks but super noisy now.  Double checked install. Noise is in  motor now   Any suggestions. I put grommet on shaft as it didn’t seal opening 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Diverter seal goes in from top of sump, NOT from bottom.

See the picture above of old bad seal before being removed - plastic diverter motor shaft top side of sump, inside dishwasher.