Kenmore Rage 79096413400 Infinite switch test - is it getting power?

[ECtoFix]

@cpjxh7

I'm still pondering over your latest tests and answers others have provided.

However...REGARDING THE PLASTIC CONNECTOR:

Overheated connections is an all to common problem with cooking equipment.  It's caused by loose connections or an adjoining, compromised switching device. This must be remediated properly.

So, that connector being black between P3 & P4 is an indication that the connectors inside got overheated and need replaced.  Additionally, if the WIRES leading into those overheated connectors has gotten stiff or oxidized, those sections of wire needs to be cut back until you have good wire again.  You should be able strip the wires back to clean, undamaged strands before crimping on new connectors.

Also take a good look at the board's terminals.  Any discoloration THERE?  How about on the ORIGINAL (you'd said that it was swapped out with a spare).  If so, the board should be replaced too. 

[ECtoFix]

1 hour ago, Vance R said:

Ok, looks like surface switch is not closing L1 to H1 you'll need and infinite switch.  Next part is a guess, it is possible that terminal P is not closing to L1 inside the infinite switch. This may keep the lockout board from closing the relay to complete the circuit to L2 for the element.

I'm learning as I go, but still trying to help.

The P terminal on the infinite switch is generally designed to just light up an indicator light.  In THIS case, I'm thinking that's the case - to supply the SURFACE INDICATOR.  So, with P terminal's output being routed through the CTLO board, I'm thinking it's only done that way so that the CTLO board will prevent the SURFACE INDICATOR from illuminating if the COOK TOP LOCKOUT feature is selected.

I say this because, per the schematic, all of the relays on the CTLO board are normally closed (de-energized).  I think that a signal from the ELECTRONIC OVEN CONTROL is what enables the COOK TOP LOCKOUT (pressing and holding the lightbulb button until one beep is heard [after 3 seconds]).  At that point, all of the board's relays would energize and open - thus disabling the cook top elements.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vance R]

5 hours ago, cpjxh7 said:

L1 to H1, ON = OL, OFF = OL--- so surface unit switch is open

Was referring to this finding from your previous test. Also we may need to get more precise and take voltage readings instead of using continuity.  

We need to get 220 vac at L1 to L2 (and P4) with the switch on for the element to work. A t the moment all that is there is 18 vac.

2 hours ago, cpjxh7 said:

L2 to H1 = OL

 

2 hours ago, cpjxh7 said:

L2 to H1 = continuity

These should be L1 to H1 on the switch. Suspect this is just a typo error. Usually these are double pole single throw switches with the L2 to H2 being a bi-metal arrangement to control cooking temp.

[Vance R]

1 hour ago, ECtoFix said:

I say this because, per the schematic, all of the relays on the CTLO board are normally closed (de-energized).  I think that a signal from the ELECTRONIC OVEN CONTROL is what enables the COOK TOP LOCKOUT (pressing and holding the lightbulb button until one beep is heard [after 3 seconds]).  At that point, all of the board's relays would energize and open - thus disabling the cook top elements.

Not sure how the lockout board works. Your theory looks to be good. If that is the case P4 is basically connected to P2 and L2 all the time.  All i noticed was all the P terminals on the infinite switchs are connected to P1 on the lockout board .

[cpjxh7]

2 hours ago, Vance R said:

These should be L1 to H1 on the switch. Suspect this is just a typo error.

Yes, sorry, that was a type. Should have said,

OFF, L1 to H1 = OL

ON, L1 to H1 = continuity

So If I do the same tests above on the right side back burner, would that give a good comparison? They are both the same size burner and have the same infinite switch? But instead test to P5 and P7 on the CTLO board? I assume both switches should be the same.

Per the wiring diagram, L1 to H1 over the surface limit switch is open by default. Is it current coming from P the closes this switch? P is coming from P1(2) on the CTLO board. This is shared to the right front burner (switch tests bad) and left rear burner (that works). So likely not an issue?

2 hours ago, Vance R said:

Was referring to this finding from your previous test. Also we may need to get more precise and take voltage readings instead of using continuity.

So you are asking for voltage reading from L1 to H1?

I have 2 different wiring diagrams, Troubleshooting Wiring Schematic that was shared above and a Troubleshooting Wiring Diagram. The latter is a more accurate depiction of the switches and the terminals. How can I upload it if I don't have a URL to share. Do I need a image hosting site to share it from?

Thanks!

[cpjxh7]

9 minutes ago, cpjxh7 said:

Is it current coming from P the closes this switch

Or is that a just a mechanical contact from turning the dial on the switch?

[Vance R]

51 minutes ago, cpjxh7 said:

Per the wiring diagram, L1 to H1 over the surface limit switch is open by default. Is it current coming from P the closes this switch?

Basically there is a cam inside the switch that close L1 to P and H1 also closes H2 to L2. H2 to L2 are a bi-metal setup to open and close to control temp of element and cam controls tension of bi-metal to obtain different temps. 

 

56 minutes ago, cpjxh7 said:

So you are asking for voltage reading from L1 to H1?

Nope. just that resistance reading my not give the whole picture. Things can change when voltage is applied and put under load.

 

I'm using the diagram ECtoFix posted. Using that diagram for right rear burner there is no 220 vac from L1 to L2 on the infinite switch. The infinite L1  is tie directly to the L1 at the terminal block and is more than likely daisy chained to the other infinite switches, so shouldn't be an issue. The infinite L2  goes to P4 then through the lockout board to P2 and out to L2 on the terminal block.  Just curious have you measured P4 to P2 with switch on? It should be 0 vac if the relay is closed and the points are good.

[cpjxh7]

8 hours ago, Vance R said:

have you measured P4 to P2 with switch on

Just to make sure, P4 to P2 on the CTLO board? If so, I have not, but will tonight. Thanks

[Vance R]

Yes, just a way to check the lockout board. As stated before it should be 0 vac, if you get 220 vac it means there is and open circuit on the board.