Board Level Repairs? Washing Machine VFD failure

[coryjfowler]

Mostly just curious if anyone here has attempted any board level repairs.  I am specifically looking at a GE Hydrowave motor control board which was giving me a red LED flashing 6 times after being reset a handful of times with and without the belt.  The used replacement has the washer going again, but this board is the only apparent reason it failed since the motor seems fine.  Can someone tell me if the service manual for a GTWN4450M1WS (https://appliantology.org/files/file/693-ge-gtwn4250d0ws-top-loading-hydrowave-washer-minimanual-and-service-bulletin-bundle/) would give me anymore information on the motor than what I have already?  I really doubt a schematic of that board exists in any public capacity.  I cant download it ...

[16345Ed]

19 hours ago, coryjfowler said:

Mostly just curious if anyone here has attempted any board level repairs.  I am specifically looking at a GE Hydrowave motor control board which was giving me a red LED flashing 6 times after being reset a handful of times with and without the belt.  The used replacement has the washer going again, but this board is the only apparent reason it failed since the motor seems fine.  Can someone tell me if the service manual for a GTWN4450M1WS (https://appliantology.org/files/file/693-ge-gtwn4250d0ws-top-loading-hydrowave-washer-minimanual-and-service-bulletin-bundle/) would give me anymore information on the motor than what I have already?  I really doubt a schematic of that board exists in any public capacity.  I cant download it ...

Downloads for professional technicians that are subscribers only. 
 

Most manufacturers don’t provide that level of detail anyway. 

[mbed]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:31 AM, 16345Ed said:

Downloads for professional technicians that are subscribers only. 
 

Most manufacturers don’t provide that level of detail anyway. 

I found an interesting site called allaboutcircuits.com. It has a bunch of board level stuff...beyond my scope (for now).

[Scottekarate]

The only board repairs that I've taken on are a swollen capacitor or a relay. It's really rare and probably not worth it. What caused the relay or capacitor to fail? It can be expensive but it's best to just replace the part.

[Scottekarate]

And no, the Mini manual for this does not give you any components on the board itself. GE keeps it pretty simple. It's the same sheet that's up in your control panel. Put it back when you're done.

[Terry Carmen]

On 3/9/2020 at 11:24 AM, coryjfowler said:

Mostly just curious if anyone here has attempted any board level repairs.  I am specifically looking at a GE Hydrowave motor control board which was giving me a red LED flashing 6 times after being reset a handful of times with and without the belt.  The used replacement has the washer going again, but this board is the only apparent reason it failed since the motor seems fine.  Can someone tell me if the service manual for a GTWN4450M1WS (https://appliantology.org/files/file/693-ge-gtwn4250d0ws-top-loading-hydrowave-washer-minimanual-and-service-bulletin-bundle/) would give me anymore information on the motor than what I have already?  I really doubt a schematic of that board exists in any public capacity.  I cant download it ...

I've fixed a few burned connectors, but generally it's a can of worms, since the next time it breaks, they'll either blame you or expect you to fix it again.

In any case, there isn't any documentation for the actual board, so you're mostly left guessing.

[J5*]

The only board repairs we ever do is on old washing machines where the display board isn’t available and 1 of the switches doesn’t work anymore usually power or start 

We just swap the switch with another on the board that the customer doesn’t use and they are happy again 

[coryjfowler]

A replacement motor has the washer running again as expected, and I still plan to investigate this board.

Discussing it with a colleague, we speculate that the main capacitors might be going bad if the motor is fine.  This particular version I have has a 4 pin connector with a 3 wire cable for communication to the front panel which I have discovered to be a 9600 8N1 half-duplex serial communication link while probing the unit with a oscilloscope.  There appears to be no brake resistor which means if one opens the lid and triggers the unit to stop, it is possible that it over-volts the capacitor bank when it slows down.  I'm just figuring out how to safely test this on my bench so the washer stays open for use and that I'm not dealing with a board that has its "GND" reference offset about -170V from Protective Earth.

[Ghashaan]

19 hours ago, mbed said:

I found an interesting site called allaboutcircuits.com. It has a bunch of board level stuff...beyond my scope (for now).

I visit allaboutcircuits.com once in a while. They teach electronics from the ground up. They have a series of books that teaches the basics of electronics. I keep a printed copy of four of those books. It's a great site to visit to learn about electronics, but if you're just starting, I can say that you're still years and years away from doing any real world repair. What electroncs books teach only tell the theory. The practicals appear in thousands of different ways. Sometimes it's nerely impossible to identify the components themselves. The idea of board level repairs is impractical in my opinion. 

I just wanted to share my thoughts on this topic as you mentioned a familiar site to me. 

[Bigfootrepair]

Repairing boards is a can of worms as the previous poster said. If I were you I wouldn't repair boards until you messed with it for yourself. Having said that, you can find all the information of the components printed on the component generally or if you take it into a place where they sell components they're very good at looking them up for you and providing information on how to find them yourself.

Repairing boards though is it's own skill set much like repairing Machines. You would be better off learning it if you were going to do phone and laptop repair to be honest.

[frunch]

I've fixed a handful of GE refrig motherboards that had a blown solder joint on the relay that turns on the compressor. Also have fixed WP Duet dryer boards with a similar problem for the relay that controls the motor, and the Kitchen Aid refrig motherboards that need a new power supply capacitor (and occasionally evap relay too).  Generally easy work if you have the tools and skills, and I've only had 1 or 2 cases where it didn't solve the problem for at least a couple years+. I always am 100% up front about what I'm attempting for the customer (I'm only presenting it as a potential option to a replacement board without any guarantee it will last), and already have a backup plan in place (with pricing determined) should the repair not succeed. It may not work out for everyone, but I've been doing these types of repairs the past few years and saved the day on more than one occasion by being able to do so. It doesn't hurt that I have a very active interest in electronics outside of my job, so I have the tools and skills and stuff already. 

You probably won't make a fortune at it, and by all means some customers might try to blame any further trouble on the work you had done. I'm always careful how I present the option to folks and if I think there's any potential for that sort of trouble, I'll not even mention it. I've got quite a number of long-time customers who are comfortable taking a chance on these types of repairs, and I only take on something I feel very confident about my ability to fix. I won't go any further than basic stuff though, as there's no documentation out there I'm aware of. Plus time = $ and it's hard to say if it's worth going down the rabbit hole for a board you may never run into again (or be able to fix in the first place).