Speed Queen Dryer model ADE3SRGS175TW01, automatic mode cuts off too fast

[Brewmaster210]

2020 Model dryer. Timed mode works perfect and dries clothes in a normal amount of time. Automatic mode, timer progresses too fast and cuts off when the clothes are still really wet. I checked the documentation on the Alliance Laundry site and it looks like this model doesnt have a moisture sensor. So I assumed it must work like the older whirlpools that rely on the timer progressing only when the cycling thermostat is open (heat is off). But those have a big power resistor mounted beside the timers (stick style, or disc style). So I assumed maybe the resistor was bad, and making the timer progress the whole time its running, instead on only when its not calling for heat. Because it only runs for maybe 10-20 minutes, even if I put it on the most dry setting.

So how else could this automatic mode work, if theres no sensing bars and seemingly no power resistor thing like the older whirlpools? Or maybe thats why it doesnt work?? I received this dryer from a massage place, they said it was taking too many cycles to dry their towels. Maybe it never worked on the auto mode??  But surely Alliance Laundry wouldnt design such a thing.

I've posted pictures of the timer and the wiring schematic. Does any idea how the automatic mode would work on this thing? Or what the issue might be? Also here is the link to the parts manual...http://docs.alliancelaundry.com/tech_pdf/PartsService/D518094.pdf

 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@Brewmaster210 It is the old "dumb" type moisture sensor - when the operating/cycle t-stat opens the timer gets L2-120Vac from the Red/White wire after the power travels thru the heating element, (the timer motor is 240Vac motor - doesn't use the power resistor since it doesn't have to drop the voltage to the timer down to 120 Vac).   When in Auto mode timer contact "F" to "T" is closed)

[evaappliance]

make sure the element it not shorted to ground

[Brewmaster210]

Thanks for the responses. I did more testing, and I made sure that it is working like it should. I stuck a digital thermometer through the exhaust pipe and ran it on auto mode for about 10 minutes. What i observed is this: While the dryer was heating, the timer motor was not moving (did not have 240). As soon as the cycling thermostat opened (around 165 degrees or so), the timer motor had voltage and started moving. And then it stopped as soon as the cycling thermostat closed again (seems like it was around 125 degrees). I watched it for 6-8 cycles, and it was consistent.

To evaappliance's point above, it would be good to know if the element is grounded. But it seems like it should not be, since at least in my experience, the dryer will typically continue to heat when the thermostat is closed, most of the time even blowing a fuse eventually. BUT, maybe it is continuing to heat on a small portion of the element, which would make the time period that the cycling thermostat is open be longer than it should, leading to the motor running more than it should in auto mode. A grounded element usually causes heat in the cool down period, or in air fluff setting, which I have not observed. But regardless, its a good thing to check.

If the element isnt grounded, I cant think of what else it would be, since everything seems to be working properly. Since I posted this thread, I've tried the automatic mode several more times, and the clothes are consistently still damp at the end of the cycle. As in, seems like they need at least 2x the amount of drying time to actually get dry. A load that normally takes 60 minutes to dry is only running for around 30 minutes or less before it gets to the cool down section on the timer dial.

[THRAMICH]

All I can suggest is running the dryer with a meter connected to the thermostat wires, and see if power is still being passed to the timer motor during the cooling cycle. The wire could be connected at the wrong place, allowing the timer motor to run nonstop.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@Brewmaster210 Need to make sure the front of the dryer is a little lower then the back so the clothes tumble to the front where they can contact the moisture sensor bars and make sure the bars are clean, (they can get a layer of fabric softener waxy buildup that won't let them sense the wet clothes). 

[Captain Dunsel]

Uploading wiring diagram for this model for future reference.

[evaappliance]

it sounds like you are doing everything right , and all the specs seem right,, the only thing i can think of is did you  test it with the vent off ?   

[Brewmaster210]

17 hours ago, evaappliance said:

it sounds like you are doing everything right , and all the specs seem right,, the only thing i can think of is did you  test it with the vent off ?   

Yes, i tested it both ways. With the vent on and the vent off. I got the same result either way.

 

23 hours ago, THRAMICH said:

All I can suggest is running the dryer with a meter connected to the thermostat wires, and see if power is still being passed to the timer motor during the cooling cycle. The wire could be connected at the wrong place, allowing the timer motor to run nonstop.

I didnt connect a meter to the thermostat wires directly, but for sure the timer motor is only moving when it isnt calling for heat, and stops as soon as the element turns on. And this is correct operation. This is the way a "dumb moisture sensing" dryer works. (aka, no moisture meter in this unit, timer motor only runs when when heating element is off). For sure the timer motor is not running the whole time. Basically I watched my thermometer, and you know how you can see the timer motor moving through the little window on the back of the timer? Basically I watched that little window while I watched the temp probe i had stuck into the exhaust vent. And when temp was going up, the motor was stopped. And when temp stopped going up and started going down, motor stopped. Actually i could even hear the thermostat click and saw the timer motor stop moving at the exact same time. So its working as expected.

 

23 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

@Brewmaster210 Need to make sure the front of the dryer is a little lower then the back so the clothes tumble to the front where they can contact the moisture sensor bars and make sure the bars are clean, (they can get a layer of fabric softener waxy buildup that won't let them sense the wet clothes). 

Good thought, but this one doesnt have sensor bars as explained above. Its the dumb style, without sensor bars.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

9 minutes ago, Brewmaster210 said:

Good thought, but this one doesnt have sensor bars as explained above. Its the dumb style, without sensor bars.

UGH!!!  Brain fart - I already told you it was the dumb style, I have no idea why I said to check the sensor bars or tilt the dryer????

[evaappliance]

i am at a absolute loss on this one !    this is waaaayyyyy out there , but i have had a few that was warped around in shipping and the tub was not running true, allowing a gap in the tub seals , sucking in a little cold air./    

[Budget Appliance Repair]

I'm at a loss on this one also, everything sounds like it working like it should.   The temps 125 to 165 sound withing reason.

@evaappliance Don't see how bad seals would cause this, if it were sucking in cold air the heater would be on for longer periods of time to get up to temp and off for shorter periods of time so timer would run less and it would seem like it would be taking a longer time rather then turning off too soon.

[evaappliance]

you are right budget  !   nothing makes sense on this one

[THRAMICH]

I know this is incredibly basic, but is the correct timer motor installed on this dryer?

[Brewmaster210]

16 hours ago, THRAMICH said:

I know this is incredibly basic, but is the correct timer motor installed on this dryer?

Its the correct timer. I verified. But also, the timer shutoffs line up with the markings on the faceplate. 

I got this dryer free from a customer that was upgrading and frustrated about the automatic mode not working. I decided to keep it, being speed queen, but actually I'm not all that impressed with it overall. The timer in it is the same cheap timer from mexico that whirlpool is putting in their dryers (that have a pretty quick failure rate)

I decided to keep it and swap out our Whirlpool, since the wife is ok with using the timed mode. But yeah, me being me, I wanted to fix the auto mode and it bugs the crap out of me that i cant figure it out. I'm at a loss as well. It is under warranty....I think these things get 3 years. So i guess I could call Appliance Laundry and see what they say.

[Brewmaster210]

And I just noticed you said timer motor (if thats what you meant...the actual motor on the timer).. Now thats an interesting thought. I know different motors do have different rotational speeds.  I guess there is a super, super slim chance it could be the timer motor itself is the wrong motor for the timer. But I dont think so. I've never timed the timed mode to see if 60 minutes really was 60 minutes. But 60 minutes certainly isnt 30 actual minutes or anything. So I dont think its the wrong motor itself. 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@Brewmaster210 As far as I know they only make two different motors for that type of timer, (the only difference is one is a 120 Vac and the other like yours is 240 Vac).

It would seem just from your observations that the timer motor is working at the correct speed but the thing to do to make sure is to put it on 30 minutes and time it and make sure it shuts off in 30 - 35 minutes.

[Captain Dunsel]

I google that model number and came up with him on another forum posting a picture of the timer he has it all apart with severe burn’t contacts inside. He is not posting that picture! You need a new timer. @Brewmaster210 Like you can fix that cheap timer.LOL

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@Captain Dunsel That would sure do it!!!!   If the heating element contact is bad in the timer when it opens and stops the heater the timer motor would receive power just like if the operating t-stat opens.

These crappy new timers are known for burning up points prematurely - 2 to 3 years and failing isn't at all unheard of.

[Brewmaster210]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:29 AM, Captain Dunsel said:

I google that model number and came up with him on another forum posting a picture of the timer he has it all apart with severe burn’t contacts inside. He is not posting that picture! You need a new timer. @Brewmaster210 Like you can fix that cheap timer.LOL

I'm very familiar with these timers (I do repair work), and the burned up contact wasnt severe. Usually these timers go bad and stop heating due to the arm that pushes on contact A towards C getting a groove worn into the plastic arm itself, which ends up not pushing on the metal contact hard enough, and then ends up arcing on the connection, and burning up the contact. Eventually will result in a no-heat situation. There were some early signs of that happening, though the plastic arm itself in my timer was perfectly fine (no groove cut into it from the gear wheel, yet), but there was some charring on the contact itself. However, it wasnt yet to the point that it was causing a no-heat situation. Heat works perfect throughout the whole cycle. I know that because I tested continuity between those contacts while I manually spun the timer dial all the way around. And it has continuity everywhere its supposed to, and no continuity everywhere its not supposed to have it. I did however clean off the contact with some cleaner while I had it open, to hopefully help it last  longer. I had simply posted that picture in the other forum to make the point that Alliance Laundry is putting these crappy timers in these high dollar dryers, which in my opinion is kind of ridiculous, as they are known to have short lives. I see these timers fail as early as 2-3 years sometimes, but usually around year 6-8. And of course they give a 3-year warranty, and 98% of the timers will fail after warranty expires.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 9:17 AM, Budget Appliance Repair said:

@Captain Dunsel That would sure do it!!!!   If the heating element contact is bad in the timer when it opens and stops the heater the timer motor would receive power just like if the operating t-stat opens.

These crappy new timers are known for burning up points prematurely - 2 to 3 years and failing isn't at all unheard of.

Can you explain what you mean here? 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

12 minutes ago, Brewmaster210 said:

Can you explain what you mean here?

If heating circuit contacts in timer B - A where opening intermittently because of burnt points or worn parts, (could get worse the longer into the cycle as the bad points heat up more), then it would be just like opening the cycling t-stat and the timer would get the L2 voltage thru the timer F - T contacts.

[Captain Dunsel]

This is his actual picture he posted on another forum. It is like a $50 dollar timer or possible free from speed queen because of a 3 year warranty. They would probably just mail it to your house or business.Very nice company to deal with.

[Brewmaster210]

32 minutes ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

If heating circuit contacts in timer B - A where opening intermittently because of burnt points or worn parts, (could get worse the longer into the cycle as the bad points heat up more), then it would be just like opening the cycling t-stat and the timer would get the L2 voltage thru the timer F - T contacts.

Gotcha. You may be on to something here. I will study the wiring diagram so that I can understand that logic better. It seems like I should just contact Speed Queen regardless, since the timer, even though works fine in the timed mode, could have issues (and does, as you can see in Captain Dunsel's post above ), and it should still be under warranty. I really didnt think it was the timer, but you're starting to make me think it is. I'll contact them and see where that takes me.