Kenmore (Series 80 110.92284100) washing machine intermittent spinning while draining

[Whirlygig1]

My Kenmore washer (series 80 110.92284100- bought 1993) had an issue a couple of weeks ago where the washer would agitate fine but not spin.  Opened the cover up and put it in the spin mode and could hear the motor but could not see the clutch hub turning.  On removal, the clutch was fine and so was the coupling.  Took the transmission apart and found that the shoulder pawl stud that is part of the neutral drain assembly had sheared off and part of it was still embedded in the gear.  As the washing machine is 30 years old, I figured it was time for a new transmission so got a new OEM Whirlpool transmission and installed that along with a new coupling even though the existing coupling was only 4 years old and was fine.

Everything seemed to run okay for a few days but the clunk sound that I assume comes once as part of the neutral drain cycle was noticeably loud.  After the first few days noticed that during the drain cycle the drum was spinning even though that did not happen the first time I ran it with the new transmission.

So ran another load but a light one with the water level at the lowest and this time the neutral drain worked fine with no spinning while it was draining.  Then ran another normal load with the water level at the mid point and had the same issue with it starting to spin while draining.

Not sure why I am having this intermittent issue with the neutral drain not working.  The transmission was definitely brand new from a reputable vendor.   Could this still be a problem with the new transmission or could it be the timer or something else altogether?  If it was the transmission why would it be intermittent?  If it is the timer, how should I troubleshoot that?
 

Thanks.

[Whirlygig1]

The only reason I discovered this issue was that the clothes were wetter than they usually are after the wash is done.

Thanks. 

[Vance R]

Couple of way to check. One is to observed a spin cycle to see if the timer does a pause for the motor. The other way is to let it neutral drain and lift the lid to induce a pause. 

[Quick]

The machine must agitate for about 8 seconds to reset the natural drain as well if memory serves 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

If it was fully drained but the clothes were sopping wet - but when put back into a spin cycle and started at the spin cycle it wrung all the water out of the clothes good - that all points to the timer not pausing to let the transmission shift out of neutral.

If the timer points are intermittently sticking together so the motor doesn't pause for that few seconds between the 2 minute neutral drain period and the spin period it will just keep running in neutral until the cycle comes to the end.  All water will be pumped out but the clothes won't have spun at all and be sopping wet.

[Whirlygig1]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  I had bypassed the lid switch many years ago when it failed on me so will also get one of those coming so I can use that to pause it and see what happens as well.

The weird part is I ran it twice today and one of the times after agitate there was a pause and the other time there was not.  Need to run it a few more times and observe carefully as to what happens. 

When it works incorrectly, it goes from agitate to draining but also starts spinning while draining rather than draining completely before spinning.  Based on reading online posts, I thought that was an indication of the neutral drain not engaging properly but I would have thought that meant something was defective with the neutral drain part of it but this is a brand new transmission.  During one run today, it worked just fine where after the agitate cycle, it paused then started draining and after having drained fully, started the spin,  So has me confused in that it is not consistently acting up and so I need to do some more testing and record what it does.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@Whirlygig1 Not neutral draining - starting to spin while draining is really much of a problem, (but since it's a new transmission the neutral drain should be working).  The original first year of two of the direct drive Whirlpool washer didn't have neutral drain and when directly into spin with a full tub of water.

The neutral dropping out while draining and the basket starts to spin happens a lot of times when the neutral drain components start wearing out but usually it's not a problem - just a little harder on the clutch.

The problem of it not spinning at all and just keeps neutral draining thru the complete spin cycle can only pretty much be a bad timer motor contact welding together during the drain part of the cycle so it doesn't let the motor pause to shift out of neutral after the two minute drain period.

[Whirlygig1]

I agree that the neutral drain should be working as it is a newer transmission but what I am seeing is that it works some of the times but not always.

I took the timer out.  Used contact cleaner and tried to clean the contacts as best as I good with a fine file going in from the end while turning the dial to expose different contacts (did not want to totally disassemble it as the machine still works).  Given that it is 30 years old, I could see some of the contacts were not in the best of shape.  Put it all back together and ran it twice.  First time had water level at mid point and clothes in it.  After the agitation part, motor stopped completely meaning the timer is working.  However when it started back up, it started draining but also spinning at the same time which clearly means the neutral drain is not engaging.  Second time I ran it with the water at the lowest level and with just one towel in there.  This time it worked perfectly (no spinning while draining).  So neutral drain worked fine this time.

So here are a few questions:

1. The clutch is original and I should have replaced it when I recently installed the new transmission.  I did not because it seemed fine and did not appear to be slipping.  Is there a chance that the clutch could be slipping and more so when you have a full load then an empty load and could a slipping clutch be the reason why neutral drain is not engaging every time?

2. Could a bad timer contact cause the motor to start up slower at times and prevent the neutral drain from engaging every time?  I guess other than the timer changing direction of the motor to the drain/spin direction, I am not quite clear on what specifically causes the neutral drain to engage?

3. Or is it that I have a flakey new transmission?  Is there perhaps a failure mode with the neutral drain assembly that can cause it not always engage reliably?

I am going to first replace the clutch lining and see what that does.  Unless you all tell me otherwise, my guess it that will not fix the issue with the neutral drain not engaging reliably.

Next I will rebuild my original transmission as I got a neutral drain kit in and will then put that back in and see what happens then.  Will post my findings.

Thanks for your input and advice.

 

[Vance R]

26 minutes ago, Whirlygig1 said:

I am going to first replace the clutch lining and see what that does.  Unless you all tell me otherwise, my guess it that will not fix the issue with the neutral drain not engaging reliably.

The clutch won't cause the basket to spin and drain. The transmission has to drive the clutch to spin the basket.

[Whirlygig1]

Thanks for confirming that.  I will rebuild my old transmission and put that back in and report back.

[Whirlygig1]

An update:  I got the neutral drain kit and rebuilt my original transmission.  Put it all back together and everything works fine now.  Been testing it for three days and no issues.  When it drains, it does not spin any longer so there was definitely a problem with the neutral drain on the newly purchased transmission.  I used to hear a loud clank with the new transmission and that could have been indicative of some problem.  Don't hear that at all with my rebuilt one.

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice!