Should Appliances be plugged into GFI outlets?

[mastertech011]

THEY say your modern appliances shouldnt trip them, but Im not betting my fridge or freezer full of food on it.

[AppTech]

i agree.

[J5*]

I just had to read up on what a gfi is , seems it’s similar to our rcd residual currrent device which measures current leak to earth but works differently

typically we don’t have any real issues with nuisance tripping of units

typically ovens wont be installed on a protected circuit due to heating elements 

fridges typically in a new build should be on their own circuit so don’t switch off from another’s fault 

a reasonable amount of work I do is defrost elements leaking to earth or dishwashers tripping power due to a leak 

it seem strange for a safety device over there that it doesn’t seem to work too well when most items are said to not be plugged into them. 

[jordanlee]

On refrigerator outlets I always recommend to my customers to get a surge protector. It will save them big bucks in the long run. However the GFCI Recepticals will always give trouble.

[coolhandluke]

You should check heating element with a megger, posted this video before and additional info from Fluke on GFCI wear and maintenance

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips-in-gfci-protected-circuits

[PEvans]

My laundry room is finished, but has a sink within 6' of the 120V outlet. Doesn't that mean I have to have a GFCI in that outlet?

 

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[coolhandluke]

Probably due to the sink, you can check your local plumbing/electrical code requirements.

[Bintiwangu]

I guess this is kinda sorta  related to the GFCI topic. When I lived in Nebraska., most of what I did was sell, design, and install hydronic radiant floor heating systems in shops and show homes. 

But occasionally we did an Electric cable system instead of tubing and boiler. Those Cable Systems were required (at least by Nebraska code) to be wired to a GFEP. I don't know anything about them other than they stand for ground-fault equipment protection and are supposed to be even more sensitive than the ground fault circuit interrupter. Oh and I think they cost a lot more too.

[ReStoreAppTech]

I have customers ask me all the time if they can use surge protectors. We have strict policy on our warranty that states no improper installation or it voids warranty.

[appleimac]

Very informative - my old dishwasher has for years been plugged into to a circuit on a GFI outlet, which has microwave, countertop water heater, and more - GFI only trips when I have tried to manually pour water into the dishwater bottom, thought at first it blew due to me replacing the tiny pump inlet seal, was leaking a bit before that. After leaving dishwasher closed while waiting for parts, noticed a bit of black mold on the back - DW not filling properly, waiting for part - read I could manually fill DW with water after fill cycle started - tried to gently pour water into bottom, GFI tripped quickly- guess that caused a path back to ground as was mentioned.  After a day and DW dried up somewhat,, GFI would reset.

[Far field]

GFI GCI they can be like the 10 cent fuse thats still good cause the picture tube in the TV went out to protect it. They work well for a while but they are watching things that eventually change and are so sensitive theyd cry instead 9f laugh at a joke. But we don't hear much about people getting shocked. I'd shy away from these safety items if water was a  problem. I have my washer on one and it was doing the nuisance tripping but after I changed the water valve the trouble went away too.  Seems it was the water valve. Haven't had to reset it in 6 months now. One other thing, if I was asked about it I'd be for it on a washer but only if it was above the washer console. Resetting it behind the washer is not convenient. 

[appleimac]

I was told by an electrician that dishwashers should be on their own 15 amp or more circuit, and they should not be on a GFI - he said perhaps the heating element has a crack in the bottom where it is not easily visible, and that is why when I poured water manually into the bottom of the tub it blew the gfi each time - heating element still works - last time gfi took a day or so before it would reset again, as if something had to dry up -

[appleimac]

On 6/16/2019 at 5:20 PM, ReStoreAppTech said:

I have customers ask me all the time if they can use surge protectors. We have strict policy on our warranty that states no improper installation or it voids warranty.

I fought with GE on fridges on this - keep in mind, this is for a surge protector, not a GFI - GE kept saying not to use extension cords, 4 times had to state it was not an extension cord, it was a surge protector made for a fridge. Finally they said a surge protector could be used if it were made for a refrigerator - I asked them what they were doing to protect all of the expensive circuitry that I am seeing reports of blowing frequently - sometimes melting down components - if we are not using good surge protectors on this stuff - not allowed too - then the manufacturer had better damn well protect expensive circuitry from day to day small surges, as well as major ones.

 

[appleimac]

On 5/30/2018 at 3:34 PM, mastertech011 said:

THEY say your modern appliances shouldnt trip them, but Im not betting my fridge or freezer full of food on it.

I agree, no GFI on fridges - however, I argued with GE with them not wanting us to use surge protectors, calling them extension cords. I asked them what they were doing to protect all this expensive circuitry that seems to fail spectacularly often with very expensive bills. They finally said a surge protector could be used if made for refrigerators -

 

[mastertech011]

Knocking on wood, I have gone on a year now with all GFCI outlets or dual function at the panel or afci at the panel with the exception of bathroom and kitchen lights. No dishwasher here, and gas range is only on GFCI. Refrigerator and Freezer on thier own circuits to the panel on dual function breakers.. So far no false trips. I did rewire a lot of the house and removed ALL shared neutrals. House was built in 1954

[Fivestar_appliance_repair]

It's not a good idea to plug big appliances such as refrigerators, washing machine, dishwasher and sump pumps into a a GFCI outlet or circuit. It's also not a good idea to put lights on GFCI circuit – you don't want to be left in the dark if the circuit trips.

[Far field]

Well think like this. It is suppose to protect people from shock so that makes it an ok idea. But when your wall plugs are on with your lights that’s not a gooder idea. Most all the manufacturers would like a perfect world where your appliance is the only thing on a circuit. As Samurai has pointed out in classes it’s not a good idea to use gfi on some due to nuisance tripping, I agree. No good trying to keep food cold or frozen if there is no power. A washer is also prone to tripping but spoiled wash is just an inconvenience. 

[mastertech011]

Well in the past year and half Ive had my fridge and freezer on independent circuits with combination gfci/afci breakers I have had one trip on the freezer. I keep a circuit alarm on them now that is very loud when the power cuts off for any reason to those devices. All the rest of the house gfci and afci circuits have been eventless.

[DrivenYFZ]

The newest electrical code (not enforced in some locations at this time) requires everything in the kitchen/ laundry to be GFI/AFI protected.  Be prepared to see a lot more of this in new houses.  I am an electrician and it is is an absurd code that is going to cause a lot of nuisance tripping in new homes.  This is why you see a lot of homes with GFC/AFC combination breakers filling up the entire panels.  There are a few exceptions but not many.  I wired a house just last year and the fridge would trip the breaker when you opened the door.  At this point I try to wire everything so after inspections I can install a GFI right after the appliance to protect the rest of the countertop outlets but not the appliance itself.   All I can say is be prepared for it cause its going to because common practice fore your appliances to be on GFI's either countertop or breakers. 

 

My only two cents is that per the initial poster if your appliance is on a GFI circuit combined with your countertop outlets there are ways to install countertop GFI devices without it tripping the rest of the circuit.  Do not remove the GFI protection from your countertop outlets just to get it off your appliance.   

[Far field]

But I believe in Samurai’s explanation of the aging compressor windings. So before condemning gfi consider how old the thing that’s on the circuit, how it’s made, and how and what history it has, and if it’s probably time for replacement. The real cure might be to Meg-ohm any compressor bearing units for cooling on that gfi. Then if you get a reading indicating degradation of the insulation you may have a cure. Replace the appliance or the compressor or move to a different circuit. 

[DrivenYFZ]

Totally agree with the above, all you appliance techs do what you do to make sure our appliances are working correctly.  But appliances on GFI circuits will soon be common practice.   Actually you will probably end up finding more nuisance tripping with the new codes requiring them to be on AFCI circuits as well.  And with the codes being what they are you will find more houses with the GFI/AFI breakers in the panel rather then devices in the wall.  This will make it much more challenging for appliance techs/ electricians/ DIY'ers to get the appliances off of the circuits without running extensions cords throughout the house...which I wouldn't recommend anyways! 

[L. Ron Hoover]

On 3/12/2023 at 7:00 AM, Far field said:

But I believe in Samurai’s explanation of the aging compressor windings. So before condemning gfi consider how old the thing that’s on the circuit, how it’s made, and how and what history it has, and if it’s probably time for replacement. The real cure might be to Meg-ohm any compressor bearing units for cooling on that gfi. Then if you get a reading indicating degradation of the insulation you may have a cure. Replace the appliance or the compressor or move to a different circuit. 

A GFI compares the current flowing through the hot and neutral legs.  It is designed to trip when the difference between those two legs is at or below a paltry .006 amps. 

In the case of the these older refrigerators, it becomes apparent why removing the ground prong from any cord is never a good idea.  Anybody know how much current we're talking about here?

In the case of the original dishwasher, I would certainly want to put an amprobe on the ground wire after reconnecting to a non gfi source.  If significant current flows when the heater element switches on, I'd certainly want to check over that heating element real good.

I have GFI breakers and outlets in my shop.  The only false tripping I ever got was while working on a set of Samsung Smart Dial Front Loaders with a "Multi-Control" data cable running between them.  The washer and dryer were on separate circuits, both GFI.  Just enough current passed through the data cable to trip the GFI breaker for the dryer but not enough to trip the washer outlet.  

[Far field]

This is interesting! I see there could be a real problem with communicating appliances. Finding this one must have been a clock eater.  Thanks for adding it to the posts. and if I may ask how was this corrected? Did you just move the ground ? If the communication ground was the reason how did you remove the trouble to verify the problem?

[mario tremblay 6]

no

[daveca]

Wrong question.

 

The appliance is irrelevant.

 

National Electrical Code controls this topic, not tech experience or opinion. Appliance techs are not qualified to determine NEC requirements just because they work with appliances.

 

NEC is a LIFE SAFETY CODE , not an appliance install or repair topic

Code determines locations REQUIRED to be ***supplied by a GFI, *** generally, wet locations or locations six- feet ( IIRC) away from a ground such as a sink with water supply or drain such that a person can touch both at once.

That GFI trip can be a small crack in the heating element, not measurable with a meter.  Meters do not generally measure with high enough voltage to induce such leakage currents as can cause a trip of an element soaked in water.

 

It only takes about 6 milliamp to trip a GFI. 10 mA kills people. Wet skin, much less current.

 

If it IS tripping a known good GFI protector, DO NOT connect it to a non GFI circuit in a wet location, thats dangerous.