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Gold Ramen

Viking VGIC365-6BSS Range Oven intermittent sputtering

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Gold Ramen

Replaced both igniters, then replaced both burner tubes.  Burner tubes performed to manufacturer guidelines right out of the box, - right size flame and all blue. Six operating hours later left side sputter sound, flame is in the burner tube.  Noisy partial burn Flame originating at nozzle where Tube is inserted.  Thank you.

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ECtoFix
  • Partial blockage of burner tubes (unlikely if they're new)
  • Primary air shutters opened too wide (possible if new and weren't adjusted)

QUESTION:

Although you said the flames were all blue before they'd backdrafted into the burner tube (at the orifices),  were the flames lifting off the burner face and have a faint roar to them?  If so, then you need to close off the primary air shutters some to settle the flames down. 

As a baseline, try closing the air shutters completely.  YES, they will be yellow or yellow-tipping when you do that.  From there, open the shutters until the flames become a steady blue with uniformed flame dispersion around the burner's face (not wafting flames).

 

FWIW: I would be checking gas pressure too, but you probably don't have the tools to do that.

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Gold Ramen

Upon flame analysis per instructions the Shutters were closed completely, which actually only caused a little yellow tipping.   The constant yellow became a sporadic flash of yellow(95%
reduction) along the fire line when  I set the Air Shutter openings of both Tubes by 50% of original.  This setting ran for 3 perfect hours (probably quieter as well) then.... About to take a victory lap and thank ECtoFIX the sputtering came back this morning!  One of the burner tubes starts sputtering and I'm told (I'm not on site right now)it is accompanied by a hum now(possibly less air intake changes the sound?) and it is starting with much more of a "whoof"(this may be true).   Turning the unit on and off restarts the intermittent process, good firing for5-45 minutes then half fire.  I have been operating it with the SS fascia trim cover removed  so we can observe the Tubes, Flame, etc. but I don't think this should affect performance. 

This Viking Range was new installed at this location 18 years ago and until this problem has needed only ignitors for maintenance.

Thank you for reading this I appreciate your help

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Terry Carmen
Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2020 at 5:33 PM, Gold Ramen said:

Replaced both igniters, then replaced both burner tubes.  Burner tubes performed to manufacturer guidelines right out of the box, - right size flame and all blue. Six operating hours later left side sputter sound, flame is in the burner tube.  Noisy partial burn Flame originating at nozzle where Tube is inserted.  Thank you.

FWIW, I think you're spinning your wheels without a manometer.

If it has been running properly for a long time, and is suddenly acting up ,especially after replacing the burners, there is almost certainly a gas pressure problem.

You'll need a manometer (probably two actually) to monitor the gas pressure before and after the range's regulator.  Sometimes the reg in the range will go bad, but sometimes the one supplying the house will go bad.

 

 

Edited by Terry Carmen
  • Like 1

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Gold Ramen

Did more testing, not because I don't agree but I realized something new ---

It is only the Left Burner that is having problems, it is always the Left.  The Right Burner is strong and awesome.  These burners are both being fed by same unit(yes, lack of knowledge here, valve?, regulator?, the body is willing but the mind is weak) and the piping comes out of opposite sides of the unit so one side (Left) would have to be messed up while the other side(Right) is just fine. Could it be the nozzle spraying into the left Burner Tube? 

Scenario:elapsed time always 4-5 minutes

Oven runs fine until heats up to 350deg.  then loss of Left fire.  Turn unit off. Adjust air shutter on burner tube anywhere from full open to closed.  Begins running looking good (shutter opening affects flame from lazy to robust) at the 3-4 minute mark the flame begins to diminish. One minute later it is only a glowing blue line along the side of the burner tube with the soft telltale noise.  The Right burner is beautiful all the time.  

I do not understand the technicalities of why it (Left only) would start out fine then degrade as it warms(higher temps make the gases expand in the Tube faster?).  Would the gas pressure(manometer reading) be the same for Left and Right?  Gas plumbing is uncharted territory for me so I will probably call in service (Viking certified? sounds expensive) since we are now dealing with gas connections, I don't personally mind a little explosion but I would feel bad if it happened to my wife!

 

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Terry Carmen

I'm still unclear on exactly what is happening. Can you post a video?

flame is in the burner tube. 

The only way to get flame in the burner tube is if the holes/slots in the burner are too big or the burner cap isn't seated properly, allowing the flame to pass through or it's being ignited from somewhere else. (gas leak? ignition wire? something else?)

 

Edited by Terry Carmen

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Gold Ramen

So Appreciate the quick reply, Terry

Give me an hour, a couple glasses of wine, and some practice!

" And this is Howard Cossell, and the kid has got some fight left in him tonight..."

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Gold Ramen

More info... the plot thickens

In order to get a better video I pulled out the heat deflector tray (formed flat metal panel with angular steel reflector underneath with asbestos-like pad sandwiched in between that separates the burners from the cooking area) sitting above the burners.  We ran to 400 deg and let it cycle perfectly 8 times.  ....???....

Then I added the tray.  It returned to 400 deg in 3-5 minutes then in one minute diminished to a blue string along the Tube with the beginning of the noisy (incomplete)combustion.

This two part "tray" had rusted/warped apart approximately 6 months ago, I reattached the deflector with sheet metal screws (with the asbestos pad sandwiched) and I thought it was amazingly close to the original dimensions.  Warped 1/4" for sure, deflector pad with a heat induced gash on the left side but seemingly suitable.  

 

Could it be the "tray"?

Thank you very much, you're great!

Gold Ramen

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Budget Appliance Repair

Swap the new igniters or complete burner tube and igniter from right to left side and see if the problem travels with the burner/igniter assembly.

Maybe you got a bad igniter that is breaking down, (Ohms going way to high as it heats up).  This sounds so much like an igniter problem but you said you replaced both igniters and burner tubes.

@Terry Carmen This is the oven that @Gold Ramen is having a problem with - this Viking range has two separate oven burners, each with there own individual igniter and oven gas safety valve, (standard hot surface igniters).

Edited by Budget Appliance Repair

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Gold Ramen

"We will not declare victory yet"(she said , as she has watched me flail for many evenings trying to get a handle on this) but it has run for 2 hours perfectly.  I did follow the instructions, I did switch left to right burners and igniters,  no problems for 30 minutes then we began baking , 20 minutes later a nearly extinguished blue glow right side (which had been on left pre- switch) and some noise from the left(?, I did not witness this, I was told of this noise).  The problem had moved from Left to Right.  Upon arrival I replaced the right (virtually new ) igniter..... now 2 hours cycling at 350degrees perfect.  

Now, if this works out it will be a great lesson in preventative maintenance and understanding that you can have multiple problems working against/with each other.  Of course who would think the new installed igniter was bad, but the burner tubes were toast as well.  On a 20 year old system the mind wanders considering far flung possibilities.  Even though I did not want to spend the time, the left to right Burner/Igniter switch would expose the greatest number of problems.  Let's hope it was a bad new igniter..  I'll let you know if something comes up.... thanks!! 

 

 

 

 

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Gold Ramen

We have suffered another setback, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.   This morning Right side out in 30 minutes. Good Preheat to 400deg, cycle, then restart very feeble flame on Right , elapsed time 30 minutes.  Right side was given a new igniter last night and ran perfect for 2 hours at 350deg.  I was happy enough last night that I reset the air shutter to a little more open to resemble(still not as powerful) the Left, it ran for 2 hours at this setting. 

These igniters did all come out of one Amazon shipment, I believe it is an Electrolux marked box,  I've been replacing 1 of these per year for 18 years so I know they look like the real deal.  The burner tubes are new but of unknown brand, visual inspection showed them very close to original except in shape of holes (round now vs. slits/ovals).

The problem did follow the Burner/Igniter from Left to Right.  But, this is pretty much the same problem I had before I started replacing or moving anything.

The wife keeps throwing away 10 lbs of hand worked dough ( 24 hour proofing time then a three hour window to bake)every time I announce it has been fixed, my reputation is in.... tatters.

 

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Budget Appliance Repair

If you've been using the same Electrolux igniters and having to replace them every year you might want to try a set of these instead.   I've quit using the OEM 5303935066 igniters because too many of them seem to be failing in less then 2 years.

These are RobertShaw 41-205 igniters and they seem to pull a higher amp draw of usually around 3.8 - 3.9 and I've seen as high as 4.0 - they light the burners in right about 15-20 seconds when brand new compared to 25-30 seconds on the OEM Electrolux ones I used to use.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5303935066-fits-Norton-and-Frigidaire-Tappen-41-205-IGN5-Gas-Range-Oven-Igniter/381439068240

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