Washer emits electrical odor

[Fixer]

I have a 1997 Whirlpool top load, direct drive Washer, model LSL9345EQ1.  The motor is only about 4 years old.  A few weeks ago the machine made it about 3 mins into the wash cycle when it stopped.  An electrical burn odor was noted.  After some time to rest it started up again and has run fine since with no odor.  Today the machine filled with water and blew a 20-amp circuit breaker.  Again, there was an electrical odor.  I reset the 20A breaker and it completed its cycle with no problem and no odor.  I checked inside the machine and all looks good.  No sign of oil or leaks.  No abnormal sounds at any part of cycle.  Checked start capacitor with ohmmeter, checks good.  Did three more loads with no problems, sounds or odor.  Very puzzled!  What is wrong with this aging washer?

[AlboGator]

Something is binding causing the motor to overheat. Finding what it is will be fun. Possibilities include something in the pump, the transmission, the motor, or something between the tubs. You're just going to have to take it apart and look. Unfortunately there is no quick and easy on a problem like this and a big part of diagnosing is based on how it feels vs how it's supposed to feel. You may not find anything or you might but I'd suggest keeping that machine as it's a good one and can be made to last a lifetime unlike the junk being made today, with maintenance of course.

 

[Fixer]

Thanks for your quick response wobiii.  Is there any possibility that an intermittent problem like this could be due to a bad motor or one that is going bad?  I've read that people have had odor problems from direct drive Whirlpools (probably not same model though) and the repair guys just replace the motor.  i'm not sure if those issues were intermittent though so it may not be the same as my problem.  So far i only get an odor if it shuts down (probably due to the over temp protection) or trips the breaker.

[AlboGator]

It could be but again you have to know what the motor should feel like opposed to what it does feel like so it's hard to explain. I'd check the other possibilities first as an intermittent motor binding would just be odd.

[Fixer]

3 hours ago, wobiii said:

It could be but again you have to know what the motor should feel like opposed to what it does feel like so it's hard to explain. I'd check the other possibilities first as an intermittent motor binding would just be odd.

Thanks wobiii for your good advice!  It seems I'm always being followed by the difficult and intermittent problems! 

I'll follow up if I get any new information.

[johntech]

I would start by pulling the motor and checking the coupling for wear.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Motor only 4 years old, doubt it is bad - especially intermittently.

More likely bad timer contacts breaking down under load and only sending voltage to run or start windings on start-up so motor won't start overheats and tips motor overload, (smell is motor windings overheating when problem occurs).

If the problem rarely occurs when doing only one load but if you do multiple loads back to back and you see the problem happen, that would point to the timer.

[Fixer]

 

Coupler is only 2 months old.  I felt it and turned shaft and it feels fine and motor shaft turns normally by hand.

4 hours ago, Budget Appliance Repair said:

Motor only 4 years old, doubt it is bad - especially intermittently.

More likely bad timer contacts breaking down under load and only sending voltage to run or start windings on start-up so motor won't start overheats and tips motor overload, (smell is motor windings overheating when problem occurs).

If the problem rarely occurs when doing only one load but if you do multiple loads back to back and you see the problem happen, that would point to the timer.

Never occurred to me that the timer contacts could be failing.  Do these contacts supply the full motor current?  Could such a defect trip 20A breaker?  Is there a way to test the timer for this problem.  Since its intermittent it may be difficult to test but let me know your thoughts on testing and thanks much for your help!!

[evaappliance]

yes it can trip the breaker & yes it can be very tricky, but worth it !

[Fixer]

The timer is Whirlpool PN: 3951912 but its not made anymore.  i found an aftermarket timer for $171.  That's a lot!  There's a place, http://www.appliancetimers.com/  that repairs them but even that is $136-.  

Does anyone know what it takes to repair a timer?  I've repaired lots of stuff including espresso machine brain/controllers but not a washer timer.  I've got a background with electrical stuff and soldering.  Any ideas of how this is done or if its possible?

[PRAS]

In your original post you said you checked the capacitor with an ohm meter, how many microfarad's did it show and what is the capacitor rated at ?

[Fixer]

The cap is the original cap. It says 110VAC and 270-324uF on the cap.  It is curious however that the recommended replacement cap (Whirlpool 8572720) has a value of 324-389uF. The test I used is a very rudimentary test that does not verify the value of the capacitance but it is a widely used test by repair folks none the less.  It only verifies that the cap is not leaking, opened or shorted, and that it holds some charge in either polarity.   You can find the test at the link below. 

http://www.repairclinic.com/vwo10/PartDetail/Whirlpool-Washing-Machine-Capacitor/8572720/1180742?ss=a11b5d112021-x38353732373230&mr=1#repairHelpVideoTabsAnchor 

[AlboGator]

It's usually accurate if you don't' see any leaking, bulging or melting.

[PRAS]

Well that's your call on the cap although no more than it costs I would still replace it. Other things to look for is a burnt or blackened motor plug and the terminals on the motor. I have also seen the tie strap that holds the wiring harness off the transmission break and let the harness come into contact with the sharp edge and cause loss of voltage and tripped breakers.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fixer]

Thanks for your responses.  The cap looks real good, no leaking, bulging etc.  No suspicious wires or blackened motor plug or terminals.  I took the timer out to inspect and can't see how this thing would be taken apart without breaking some plastic tabs.  I put it back in and did another wash with no problem at all.  Even started and stopped it multiple times during agitate with no problem.  Here's my plan for now anyway:

If the timer is the culprit, there should be at least some chance that the faulty contact will not be used during a different cycle like permanent press or or gentle but not the Normal cycle since that's the one where both problems occurred.  Does anyone know if I'm right about that?  I'll do all future loads in permanent press.  if the problem does not come back, I'll just declare success and keep using permanent press.  If the problem returns, I'll buy a new cap (that's only $10-).  If that doesn't fix it, it'll be time for a new machine.  Even though i like this machine, i don't want to spend $136- to keep it running; it is pretty old (old'y but goody that is).  

Let me know if anyone has a better idea than the above or anything else to add or suggest and thanks for all the help!!

 

[evaappliance]

check for a timer at mid-west timers  269-849-2800  if  you still need one 

[AlboGator]

I'd suggest running it until it breaks, then troubleshoot. Intermittent problems are hard to track down for us pros a lot of times. We have the experience to know what things should feel like, look like, smell like and that can be a big part of finding the pita that's failing whenever it wants to.

Again I'd suggest that you keep that washer as long as you can. Even if it were to come down to a $200 part, as long as it's in decent shape.

[Fixer]

Just wanted to follow up on this thread.  Earlier I wrote:

On 1/21/2016 at 0:53 AM, Fixer said:

If the timer is the culprit, there should be at least some chance that the faulty contact will not be used during a different cycle like permanent press or or gentle but not the Normal cycle since that's the one where both problems occurred.  Does anyone know if I'm right about that?  I'll do all future loads in permanent press.  if the problem does not come back, I'll just declare success and keep using permanent press.

Well its been just over a month now since I started using the 'permanent press' cycle and have had no problems.  Ergo, I think its confirmed that some timer contact in the 'Normal' cycle is the root source of my problem.  Rather than layout some $$ I'm just going to continue running in 'Permanent Press' instead of Normal.  Its fixed and it cost me nothing.  Pretty happy ending I'd say.  Thanks much for all the help and particularly to 'Budget Appliance Repair' and 'evaappliance' for turning my sights towards the timer! Very good advice!

[PRAS]

I'm happy they saved you some money. If you notice on heavy loads or jeans that it's taking longer to dry clothes that will be because that machine on permanent press cycle (unless you have a spin speed option) will spin on low speed.